Book II Questions Thread

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Re: Book II Questions Thread

Post by IJBall »

Thief wrote:Will there be any NPC's providing training for the core rogue skills in Book II?

This was completely lacking in Book I, which gimped attempts to make a decent true rogue character.
Following up on this - will there be a trainers for armor (and/or shield) skills in Book II?

I think armor trainers was something that was really missing from Book I.

Also, will there be (lots) more non-merchant NPCs in Book II?
(When you think about it, Book I was relatively sparse with those - there was the Salted Coast hermit, 3 non-merchant NPCs in Aridell, one in Grimmhold (and you know what happens to him!), one in the North Parish, basically just one in Bordertown, and two in Blackwater (not including the rouge). I'm really hoping there's lots more of these in Book II!! :) )

(I have another, more substantive question concerning Book I & Book II, but I'm saving that one for the end of the month. 8) )
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Re: Book II Questions Thread

Post by IJBall »

New Book II questions (these are pretty straight-forward):
  • 1. Will there be an "Undo Last Move" option?

    The reason I ask this one is that I can't tell you how many times playing Book I I've been meaning to shoot arrows at, say, the mean Barrean mercenary coming my way, but have accidentally clicked just outside of his highlight resulting instead in my character taking one step toward the mean mercenary! - so not only have a lost a combat turn, I'm one step closer to the mercenary taking his big axe and carving his name in my character's heinie!!

    An "undo last move" (Command-Z is what it would be on a Mac) could get me out of many of these sticky situations.

    Yes, I know this would open up a whole other can of worms re: loot/treasure reloading. But it would really help klutzes like me out of these sticky combat situations we get ourselves into!

    2. Will we have the option to set up keyboard equivalents (e.g. the up/down/left/right arrows) for moves in Book II?

    3. Will the character's Origin be listed along with Class & Axiom on the 'Stats screen' in Book II?

    (I always thought it was odd that Origin wasn't listed, and I often forget what Origin I chose for my character at the beginning of the game, and there's no way to check that, short of opening up the char file with a text editor!)

    4. Will Attributes & Skills be control-clickable from the character's Stats screen (yielding the descriptions) in the same way that spells are control-clickable in the Spell Journal window?

    The only place you get descriptions for Attributes & Skills is in the 'Character Creation'/Level-Up screen. But it would be really great if we could get those same descriptions any time from the 'Stats screen', and without having to go look them up in the .pdf Player's Manual.

    5. And speaking of the Spell Journal window, will the Spell Journal window be sortable by spell type in Book II?

    I always found it annoying when playing a Mage that Divination spells are automatically listed first regardless of player's class, meaning that playing Mages often leads scrolling through a potentially long-ish list of Divination spells before even reaching the sought-after Elemental spells.

    It would be really cool if we could click on the Realm heading of the Spell Journal's table, and switch back and forth between listing Divination spells first, and listing Elemental spells first.
Yeah, I've been playing this game a lot lately, and these were some of the issues that kept coming up in regards to Book I (and could be improved on in Book II).

If I think of anymore, I'll post them. :mrgreen:
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Re: Book II Questions Thread

Post by Unclever title »

Now that the Monstrous October is over, will the Q&A Question of the Week thread be updated again?

Has this question been asked before? I have a feeling it has but could not find if it has been.
Partly because this is an awkward thing to use the search function for.
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Re: Book II Questions Thread

Post by Rune_74 »

Congratz on the new baby Bask, now you just need two more to catch up....hehehe I could not even imagine trying to program with my three little ones. Now you have to work twice as hard to be a dad as well as a game maker:)
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Re: Book II Questions Thread

Post by Xixao »

Are you going to be using multiple distributors? If so will the steam version be available at the same time as the others? Will you be fixing torches and shields? The whole not being able to use one while wearing a shield seems very unrealistic. Also how to I view previous developer questions that may have answered my many questions?
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Re: Book II Questions Thread

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Xixao wrote:Are you going to be using multiple distributors? If so will the steam version be available at the same time as the others? Will you be fixing torches and shields? The whole not being able to use one while wearing a shield seems very unrealistic. Also how to I view previous developer questions that may have answered my many questions?
How does not being able to hold a torch while holding a heavy metal or wooden shield sound unrealistic? Only if you decide to put away your weapon instead is it unrealistic. Not a big fan of the sword-and-targe styles, but still, I have tried them. Buckler, maybe, since that straps to the arm and isn't supported by the hand like a proper shield. Then again, I was handed a buckler which was hand-held and had no forearm straps at all once.

My question is this: Will the classes have any real differentiations between them? In book 1, it was 3 skill points; and a single skill. Had the classes been removed entirely, there would have been no discernible difference other than the titles.

Secondly, some of the light armor pieces made no sense. A light cloak, wizard's hat, or pair of sandals really don't offer much in the way of protection. Will there be any adjustments to the item system in place?
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Re: Book II Questions Thread

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My question is this: Will the classes have any real differentiations between them? In book 1, it was 3 skill points; and a single skill. Had the classes been removed entirely, there would have been no discernible difference other than the titles.
I wouldn't expect much difference here. Eschalon is first and foremost a skill based game... so classes as are you suggest, mainly titles. Therefore if you want a class to fit, it's up to you to play it as such. :mrgreen:

If BW were to change it from skill to class based in the middle of the trilogy, I think it would throw off the balance of the game as well as turn off a lot of fans of Book I. Personally I prefer class based, but at the same time I've always been a big fan of the Fallout series, which was entirely skill based.

Although... I wouldn't mind entertaining the thought of including some class-based options similar to the difficulty selections that are going to be part of Book II... i.e. you can opt to turn on special class skills at the expense of end-game scoring. Maybe for Book III? :wink:
Xixao wrote:Will you be fixing torches and shields? The whole not being able to use one while wearing a shield seems very unrealistic.
azraelck wrote:How does not being able to hold a torch while holding a heavy metal or wooden shield sound unrealistic? Only if you decide to put away your weapon instead is it unrealistic.
Why is it that everyone always worries about what is realistic in a fantasy game?? :shock: I understand that it helps with the supension of dibelief 'n all, but where do you draw the line? I've said this before, but I also find it very unrealistic to shoot balls of fire from my hands... but that doesn't stop me from doing it. :twisted:
azraelck wrote:Secondly, some of the light armor pieces made no sense. A light cloak, wizard's hat, or pair of sandals really don't offer much in the way of protection. Will there be any adjustments to the item system in place?
Hmmm... How to respond...
****
The arrow whistled through the air, and struck Lewis in the forehead... or so it seemed. The wizard's hat that he had borrowed for his disguise made his head appear larger than it was, and what would have otherwise been a killing shot merely swept the hat off his head, pinning it to a nearby tree. Ducking a swing from another thug, he struck out with his own sword. With one opponent down, he turned toward the shooter, and charged.

The archer let another arrow loose, but Lewis was ready for it this time. He threw up his cloak and its well woven fibers caught the poorly crafted projectile and deflected it harmlessly to the side. Cursing, the man threw down his bow and drew a wickedly curved saber. The clash of metal meeting metal resounded throughout the forest.

Being mainly a ranged attacker, the archer was outclassed after just a few blows. He attempted a low swing at the knees, which was skillfully met with a sandaled foot, pinning the saber to the ground. The butt of Lewis's sword struck the assailant squarely in the jaw, dropping him to the ground in a heap. The unconcious thug was trussed up and tossed next to the campfire, and Lewis returned to his bedroll. (Interrogation can wait 'till the morning.)
****

Still in doubt?? :mrgreen:
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Re: Book II Questions Thread

Post by azraelck »

CrazyBernie wrote:
My question is this: Will the classes have any real differentiations between them? In book 1, it was 3 skill points; and a single skill. Had the classes been removed entirely, there would have been no discernible difference other than the titles.
I wouldn't expect much difference here. Eschalon is first and foremost a skill based game... so classes as are you suggest, mainly titles. Therefore if you want a class to fit, it's up to you to play it as such. :mrgreen:

If BW were to change it from skill to class based in the middle of the trilogy, I think it would throw off the balance of the game as well as turn off a lot of fans of Book I. Personally I prefer class based, but at the same time I've always been a big fan of the Fallout series, which was entirely skill based.

Although... I wouldn't mind entertaining the thought of including some class-based options similar to the difficulty selections that are going to be part of Book II... i.e. you can opt to turn on special class skills at the expense of end-game scoring. Maybe for Book III? :wink:
Xixao wrote:Will you be fixing torches and shields? The whole not being able to use one while wearing a shield seems very unrealistic.
azraelck wrote:How does not being able to hold a torch while holding a heavy metal or wooden shield sound unrealistic? Only if you decide to put away your weapon instead is it unrealistic.
Why is it that everyone always worries about what is realistic in a fantasy game?? :shock: I understand that it helps with the supension of dibelief 'n all, but where do you draw the line? I've said this before, but I also find it very unrealistic to shoot balls of fire from my hands... but that doesn't stop me from doing it. :twisted:
azraelck wrote:Secondly, some of the light armor pieces made no sense. A light cloak, wizard's hat, or pair of sandals really don't offer much in the way of protection. Will there be any adjustments to the item system in place?
Hmmm... How to respond...
****
The arrow whistled through the air, and struck Lewis in the forehead... or so it seemed. The wizard's hat that he had borrowed for his disguise made his head appear larger than it was, and what would have otherwise been a killing shot merely swept the hat off his head, pinning it to a nearby tree. Ducking a swing from another thug, he struck out with his own sword. With one opponent down, he turned toward the shooter, and charged.

The archer let another arrow loose, but Lewis was ready for it this time. He threw up his cloak and its well woven fibers caught the poorly crafted projectile and deflected it harmlessly to the side. Cursing, the man threw down his bow and drew a wickedly curved saber. The clash of metal meeting metal resounded throughout the forest.

Being mainly a ranged attacker, the archer was outclassed after just a few blows. He attempted a low swing at the knees, which was skillfully met with a sandaled foot, pinning the saber to the ground. The butt of Lewis's sword struck the assailant squarely in the jaw, dropping him to the ground in a heap. The unconcious thug was trussed up and tossed next to the campfire, and Lewis returned to his bedroll. (Interrogation can wait 'till the morning.)
****

Still in doubt?? :mrgreen:
Hitting the hat is a miss, not a piece of armor deflecting the shot. :roll: A arrow skipping off a helm is a hit deflected by armor.

Cloak would have to be very heavy (i.e., not a LIGHT cloak) to have sufficient force to deflect a arrow at close range. Be easier to jump to the side (dodge) at any rate than to attempt to catch or deflect an arrow or bolt. The bolt would more likely go through the light cloth and into whatever's behind it waving it frantically. Now, if it was something like the Mithril-woven cloak, then yes, I can see it being capable of deflecting a shot.

Using a cape or cloak in combat is more about distraction and binding than defense; you can use it to blind an opponent, divide the field of vision, etc... Bunched up, it might hold against a sword edge in a bind, depending on the quality of the materials, and the sharpness and specific type of sword blade. Better to use your own weapon to bind, toss the cloak over the opponent's head, and move inside the weapon range, using a takedown, or perhaps a dirk or other small blade to finish. I would likely seek to control the opponent's sword at that point myself, either forcing a disarm, or working that arm into a lock. But the exact tactics depend on what is going on at that point. :wink:

And you can kick in bare feet. Tae Kwon Do is rather famous for it's kicks, delivered bare foot. Though I've found a heavy steel toe boot causes considerable damage. Ever see a steel truck door get caved in by a kick? :mrgreen: A sandal won't protect the foot against anything more than going barefoot would.

And I have tossed balls of fire from my hands. They weren't magical by any means, and it was probably quite dangerous to be doing that, but that's another discussion. :twisted: I could probably figure out lightning bolts too, given enough incentive to care.

The point about armor was more curiosity, and the fact that I wanted my wizard to not have a constant "unskilled armor penalty" for wearing a WIZARD'S Hat, a flimsy piece of cloth shaped like a cone with a brim around the wider end, or a flat piece of leather held on by a few thongs to his feet. Or a long, flimsy piece of soft cloth tied around his neck and left to drape to the ground for dramatic purpose.
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Re: Book II Questions Thread

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The Armor Rating is not just about absorbing or deflecting damage. It's also about avoiding damage altogether, i.e. causing your opponent to miss. That's why Speed and Dexterity improve your AR as they increase. I was merely providing examples as a way to rationalize the added protection (albiet not very much added protection...) provided by the items in question. Therefore... the Wizards hat being a tall pointy thing distorts the shape of the head and throws off the aim of the archer. The sandals offer a meager amount of foot protection that is sufficient for stomping down on a low swinging blade (I wouldn't attempt to stomp down on a low swining blade with bare feet...). The cloak, being swung from the side could easily catch and deflect an oncoming projectile, and it's heaviness would not be in question as much as the quality of the materials used to craft it (and it's distracting/blinding of the enemy fits in with the AR definition as well).

As far as the unskilled armor penalty is concerned, I would prefer if cloth-based armor pieces did not have an armor penalty, so I won't argue that terribly much. But I could easily come up with an explanation for all three items. The wizard's hat has a wide brim with blocks a good portion of your view, having a cloak billowing about can be a great distraction for yourself as much as your enemy, and have you ever tried running around to any degree in sandals without having to worry about them flying off?

I have found items in the game such as cloaks and pieces of footwear that offer no protection at all, and if I remember correctly they did not offer any armor penalties either. My assumption is that the better quality items offer a meager amount of protection, but actually using them for protection is where the skill is required. Obviously the can't compare to actual armor for protection, which is generally reflected in the AR of the item.

As I said, I would like to see cloth armor that offers protection without penalty, or at least the ability to enchant it... i.e. it'd be cool to be able to enchant a cloth shirt with a +3 armor bonus. It'd be even cooler if that shirt could be worn under robes or other armor.
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Re: Book II Questions Thread

Post by dare49devil »

-But remember Book I was very basic...And the stuff we are talking about...Stuff like sandals and such...Is that even a big deal? I mean, come on. *rolls eyes*

-*sigh*

-Sorry. That is my end rant. =(

-But contributing to the conversation in a non-negative manner...Perhaps you know how there was Light Armor, Heavy Armor, and those, I think it was...Three items that had no classification? There could be a...'Casual' thing/category, whatever you wanna call it.

-Casual/Light Armor/Heavy Armor.

-Casual has those items like such: Sandals, Rope Belt, Tattered Pants, Cloth shirt, Small Cap, etc. Those things that, as you guys put 'don't deem much protection at all.'

-Then your Light Armor and Heavy Armor as we know it.

*edit*

-Forgot to mention that Casual is just a category, not a skill. All casual items don't deem any unskilled penalties, because they give no or very little bonuses.
Last edited by dare49devil on June 24th, 2009, 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book II Questions Thread

Post by azraelck »

Decent sandals that have some means of being held on my feet? Nope, never a problem. Flip flops? I destroy those before they fall off, but same difference. :P

I used to wear a hat with a wide brim, and it only blocked my view up. my 360 degree view was the same. :P

Cloak billowing about, I'll give to ya. The damn things are annoying at best anyway, but are good for DRAMA. And as a handy blanket.

And it is important. Didn't you know that the world will end on the stroke of midnight on New Years Eve if we don't get things straight, then make the Statue of Liberty walk herself down 5th avenue?
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Re: Book II Questions Thread

Post by CrazyBernie »

dare49devil wrote:-But remember Book I was very basic...And the stuff we are talking about...Stuff like sandals and such...Is that even a big deal? I mean, come on. *rolls eyes*
You're quite right... it shouldn't be a big deal, since it's once again a case of over-emphasizing realism in a fantasy game. The point made about unskilled armor penalties was valid, but since the explanations (which admittedly were just my personal take on the issues) were largely ignored and the conversation has degraded into "arguing for the sake of arguing," I'm calling it quits. >.<
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Re: Book II Questions Thread

Post by azraelck »

CrazyBernie wrote: I have found items in the game such as cloaks and pieces of footwear that offer no protection at all, and if I remember correctly they did not offer any armor penalties either. My assumption is that the better quality items offer a meager amount of protection, but actually using them for protection is where the skill is required. Obviously the can't compare to actual armor for protection, which is generally reflected in the AR of the item.

As I said, I would like to see cloth armor that offers protection without penalty, or at least the ability to enchant it... i.e. it'd be cool to be able to enchant a cloth shirt with a +3 armor bonus. It'd be even cooler if that shirt could be worn under robes or other armor.
Actually, I think you can enchant a basic shirt. I did so, IIRC.

Image

+3 armor, on the traveler's shirt I started with. I'll presume it was counted.

I never saw any footwear or cloaks that did not offer a unskilled penalty at all. Not much that does really, a few shirts and pants. Presumably, the sandals would be about as lowly as you can get. I only saw boots after that, but never bothered with them in that game.
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Re: Book II Questions Thread

Post by Pika »

It says that Book 2 continues the story of Book 1 where it left off. But it neglects to tell you what ending your previous character has chosen. I immediately assumed that it would be the "good ending" (Returning the Crux and NOT killing the chancellor), but then this little paradox comes up.

In the good ending cutscene, you but a cottage in Thaermore. But Thaermore has fallen. So why are you still alive?

Then again, this would be all pointless if the protagonist in Book 2 was not the same character you played in Book 1. But there IS the possibility that if it wasn't, and at the same time the storyline of Book 2 continues along the destroyer or "bad" ending of Book 1, there's a chance that the new protagonist in book 2 could MEET the one in book 1!

Sorry, I'm goingg way to far with this.

So my question is,
Which ending in Book 1 does Book 2 continue?
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Re: Book II Questions Thread

Post by Unclever title »

Pika wrote:So my question is,
Which ending in Book 1 does Book 2 continue?
Anyone who knows better feel free to correct me, but it's my understanding that the character you play in book 2 is indeed the same character from book 1 but taking place several years later. So the main character's skills have deteriorated and wherever he/she (as you can be female in book 2) had settled down it's entirely possible he/she has moved since then, probably when Thaermore was getting overrun with goblins (when that occurs might depend on which ending). The idea is that any of the three endings is applicable.

Thaermore falls no matter what. :( And assumedly the main character is long gone by then.

That's what I gathered from the forums anyway.
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