Thoughts: On Cartography "Substitution" Items...

[IJBall]

The recently renewed discussion in the "Automapping" thread has got me to thinking, and I'm bored, so here goes...

I don't know if it's too late in the development cycle for BW to fiddle with these kinds of things in Book III, but there was a good suggestion in the "Automapping" thread about how to please both people that want an "auto-Level 1 Cartography" game option and the purists who wanted no such option.

In thinking it over, I think there's two possible ways (and either, or both, could likely be implemented, though how much work would be required on BW's end, I do not know...) to implement what was basically suggested in the "Automapping" thread:

1. Option #1 - Buyable "map" items.
   
   Now Books I & II already had a flavor of this, but the kind of maps you had in Books I & II were more like "region" (or "continent") maps (or, in the case of Book II, I believe entire Eschalon world maps were available...).
   
   What was suggested in the "Automapping" thread (and was a suggestion I liked very much...) was basically an "area" map (as opposed to a "region" map).
   
   How this would basically work is the following: Some merchant would have a "Southern Boglands" area map. When in the Southern Boglands area, 'clicking' on said map in Inventory would then, rather than bringing up some .jpg (like the "region" maps do), would instead fill in your Minimap with the entire Southern Boglands minimap at the equivalent of a Level 1 (or possibly Level 2) Cartography level. (Presumably, clicking on this map when not in the Southern Boglands would either lead to nothing happening, or perhaps would lead to a message in the narrative text along the lines of "You can't use that map here! Wait until you are in the correct area to use it!")
   
   My conception of how these maps would work is that, as long as you have that map in your Inventory, either the Level 1 'minimap' would always fill in for you when re-entering that area (after you'd clicked on the map the first time), or would fill in for you anytime you (re-)entered that area and 'clicked' on the map (in your Inventory) again. Either way, not having the map in your inventory would mean no more minimap for that area (without having Cartography skill).
   
   Now, I imagine such maps wouldn't come cheap; nor presumably would maps be available for every area (e.g. presumably there wouldn't be "dungeon maps", though actually a few hard-to-get ones of those could add to the game experience!). But that would offer an alternative to those that want Cartography early, but don't want to spend skill points on it.
2. Option #2 - Magic "viewing" gems.
   
   This item idea is "borrowed" straight from the Ultima series. But the way these worked in Ultima is you could buy magic "viewing" gems which, when "used", would yield an overhead (mini)map of the area you were currently in.
   
   The big difference here between the magic viewing gems and the Option #1 maps is that these viewing gems would be "one-use only" items - e.g. you could "use" a viewing gem in the Southern Boglands to get you your Level 1-2 (or possibly higher Level, if you get a hold of a "super" magic viewing gem?...) Minimap, and the Minimap would stay up for as long as you remained in the Southern Boglands. But, as soon as you leave the Southern Boglands, even if it's to leave the area and immediately return, you would "lose" your "magic Minimap" of the area, and would have to use another "viewing gem" if you wanted to get it back (and/or you'd have to get the Cartography Skill itself).

Anyway, again, I have no idea how much trouble either of these options would be for BW to implement. And I am definitely not in the camp that wants to add any additional development time to Book III!

But I'm just basically thinking out-loud here on some ways that you could enhance Eschalon, here on the "Cartography" end, with some relatively simple additional item types that you could either buy from merchants, or perhaps find in dungeon treasure.

Any additional thoughts are welcome.

[Vroqren]

Excellent ideas, I love them both, as they still allow those who like the Cartography skill to keep doing it the way they do.

[IJBall]

Option #2 - Magic "viewing" gems.

Following up on this one, in thinking about it more, it might be better if these only worked for a limited time before the map they provide disappears from your Minimap.

In that way, these viewing gems would work more like a single-use 'Reveal Map' spell (which could be used by any character-type) that would "expire" after, say, 100 turns of use (or when leaving a map area, whichever came first).

[SpottedShroom]

I like the idea of a map item that fills in the minimap when used. It should also be pretty easy to implement given the limitations of the engine. It would still suffer from the problem that Reveal Map has, though: if you have a lower (but non-zero!) Cartography score than your current minimap was made with, moving through an area will overwrite the minimap with less detailed information. People would be well advised to use either cartography or purchased maps but not both.

Oh, and if you had a higher cartography score than what the map item simulates, then using the map item could also overwrite your minimap with less detailed information. BW could probably check for this case in the item script, though, and give the user a chance to reconsider if the character has a high enough cartography.

[IJBall]

I like the idea of a map item that fills in the minimap when used. It should also be pretty easy to implement given the limitations of the engine. It would still suffer from the problem that Reveal Map has, though: if you have a lower (but non-zero!) Cartography score than your current minimap was made with, moving through an area will overwrite the minimap with less detailed information. People would be well advised to use either cartography or purchased maps but not both.

Oh, and if you had a higher cartography score than what the map item simulates, then using the map item could also overwrite your minimap with less detailed information. BW could probably check for this case in the item script, though, and give the user a chance to reconsider if the character has a high enough cartography.

(I know I'm late responding to this, but...)

The way I conceive of this working is that 'area maps' would only yield up an area Minimap at Level 1 or Level 2 Cartography-level sophistication. So your first problem (a lower level in Cartography overwriting the Minimap provided by an 'area map') would almost never be an issue (and would never be an issue, if 'area maps' only worked at Cartography Level 1!)...

(Now, if "viewing gems" are added to the game too, I do conceive of some of those yielding up an 'area' Minimap at potentially higher Cartography levels - but I also think "viewing gems" should only yield up a Minimap for a limited number of turns, so they're less of a concern in regards to your points...)

I think the easiest way to avoid the second problem would be to force the player to "re-click" on an 'area map' (to "use/read") every time the player re-enters that particular area in the game. My original conception (that it would always "show up" in your Minimap once you've clicked on an 'area map' once) is more "elegant", but probably more of a hassle from a coding standpoint. So the simpler "you always need to (re-)click on an 'area map' when you re-enter that area" operation is probably the easier way to go, all around, for BW...

Anyway, the point is, someone with Level 10 in Cartography would be foolish to want to use a (Level 1) 'area map' in the first place!