General Thoughts on Book III, So Far (some SPOILERS)

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IJBall
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General Thoughts on Book III, So Far (some SPOILERS)

Post by IJBall »

I've been playing this game, in spurts, since I got it Friday morning. Here are some random thoughts, from what I've played through so far (I'm probably about 1/3(?) of the way through the game?...):
  • I definitely find Book III more challenging than Books I or II (this is mostly a good thing) - the Alpha & Beta testers really did a good job on "balancing", right down to figuring out near perfect numbers of XPs for Level Ups.
  • Along these same lines, I actually got "doubly-stuck" in Book III! (i.e. couldn't figure out what to do next, in two separate locations, which stymied my game progress...), which is something that basically never happened to me in Books I or II. But it's actually good that the forums were down, as it forced me to think and retrace my steps to figure out what I had missed, rather than just running here and asking for "Spoilers".
  • The storylines and plotting in Book III are definitely improved over Book III: the plot is keeping me involved here, and I'm liking the "See 'A', Who Then Tells You To See 'B', Who Then Tells You To See 'C'" quest plotting.
  • Neat trick with the "secret areas". And that was a clever solution to the "Cartography" issue that was brought up here before Book III came out - I definitely feel like I needed Cartography in my early playthroughs, though, to make sure I didn't miss anything.
  • I still wish we got 20 Skill Points at Character Creation like we did back in Book I - it would allow for more variety in starting character types. (Then maybe we wouldn't need that "secret area" near game's start!... ;) )
  • Love the new Rogue Title skills! - Wonder who came up with those!! :mrgreen:
  • I also like the minor tweaks to Mage and Ranger titles.
  • I've ended up liking that the game is stingy with Gold early (the start of Book III really is a "limited money supply" challenge for players...), but starts yielding much higher amounts of Gold mid-game...
  • On Skills: Believe or not, I still think that Foraging is overpowered (at least in terms of food acquisition), even in Book III. And Repair definitely is. Once again, Level 1 in Foraging (for food) or Repair is pretty much all you need. Dunno if there's a solution to this, but I thought I'd mention it... However, even Level 2 in Foraging is not yielding up reagents for Alchemy, so that's probably good...
  • On Alchemy reagents (and empty flasks) - I'm finding Book III to be too stingy with these. I haven't tried an Alchemy-focused character yet, but I am worried that merchants don't actually stock enough reagents to make such a build workable...
  • I'm still seeing issues with Hide in Shadows, with my Level 5 Hide in Shadows Rogue - HiS seems to "break" during combat and then be very difficult to "restore" (forcing you to go way beyond mobs' LoS to find a corner where it'll regenerate). So I'm thinking HiS coding may still be partially "broken".
  • The new spells are interesting (though I do miss Fire Dart), though I haven't gotten a chance to play with them yet (playing a Ranger with only Divination on the side, so far...).
  • I really like the new ranged-weapon foes (esp. the bow-using thugs). Hopefully we'll get to go up against magic-using foes later on in the game...
  • I dunno if I like the changes in Goblins, for continuity reasons - if Book I Goblins were under-powered, I feel like Book III Goblins are over-powered (esp. when compared to Book I), which introduces a bit of a continuity problem for me... :?
  • One of the questions before Book III was: Will arrows be plentiful enough (for Rangers)? What I've found is there are enough arrows early in the game. By mid-game, I was starting to run in to problems with the supply of arrows - not enough to "officially" complain yet. But I thought I'd throw it out there.
So far so good, overall, though. :twisted:
I have to work this week, so I'll only be able to stick some playtime in here and there... So I may have to avoid the restored forums to avoid SPOILERS... :|
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Re: General Thoughts on Book III, So Far (some SPOILERS)

Post by Ssschah »

I'm sad that we can't visit Barrea :(
The only thing I disliked about the game was that you could pay 2000 gold for access to an area that you cannot enter. "Turn back-your fate awaits elsewhere" :(
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Re: General Thoughts on Book III, So Far (some SPOILERS)

Post by Randomizer »

Different Character Builds (some thoughts):

Mage
This is still the easiest starting class since you always hit and with Dense Nimbus you don't need any armor. The only problem is the True Mage challenge requires you to use spells to open sealed barrels.

Since you have longer range than any monster missile attack, you can survive most encounters. New monster resistances still require you to have more than one damage type. Also you can never tell when you will find the needed spell scrolls and have the money at the time.

Healer
Pure healer spells mean that you will need different damage types. So it is easier to run a paladin with a weapon buffed by bless, ogre strength, and nimbleness. A pure melee version needs lots of armor, but it is easy to get light armor into the upper 60s to low 70s armor rating and laugh at the monsters' feeble attempts to hit you.

Ranger
Plenty of arrows especially in you get the feat early and retreat between uses. But the downside is fighting in the dark where your torch goes out. The change to a significant to hit minus when targeting a monster in darkness means predator sight and/or cat's eyes is more useful. High dexterity is the main attribute and can give a quarter of your armor rating by the end as well as high damage.

Fighter
A melee fighter is possible if you armor up to avoid getting hit. Armor isn't useful at the beginning, but once you get armor rating 4 pieces, then it helps.

Rogue
Still the hardest to play since Hide in Shadows needs to be high and you keep needing to get it back once you start fighting. Also you need HiS at 14 to loot every where in towns and camps. Move Silently works well with little armor, but like fighters you probably want a lot of light armor.

Weapon breakage is a problem at the start, but once you reach Old Moonrise and get a weapon with a 6 base damage it will last through several fights. At the start it helps to have a few weapons and rotate to the best condition one. You don't need much Repair, 3 or less levels, to keep weapons and armor in good shape.

Thrown weapons are still the worst range attack between weight for the best ones and the shortest attack range. Also a few monsters are resistant to piercing arrows and most thrown weapons including demon oil.
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Re: General Thoughts on Book III, So Far (some SPOILERS)

Post by Mike Modified »

I especially like the little things:

The T.Rex
Crazy Bernie
The secret places (especially the one with the dilemma: A or S?)
The stews
And the unintended perhaps: click on a skeleton and get meat scraps and a mushroom.

Still exploring and enjoying: it's much better than I or II.

Mike
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Re: General Thoughts on Book III, So Far (some SPOILERS)

Post by Eddy »

Mike Modified wrote:I especially like the little things:

The T.Rex
Crazy Bernie
The secret places (especially the one with the dilemma: A or S?)
The stews
And the unintended perhaps: click on a skeleton and get meat scraps and a mushroom.

Still exploring and enjoying: it's much better than I or II.

Mike
:lol:
I loved the T Rex.

I like the secret areas. Not sure what the "A or S" is. Guess I haven't found that one yet.
I just discovered the stews today. Nice surprise.

I think the shooting through holes in walls is new... right? Luckily I noticed I was having arrows launched at me before I ran into the places where that came in handy.

It seems to me the smaller the creature, the more of a beating it puts on me. Those cute goblins keep kicking my butt.
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Re: General Thoughts on Book III, So Far (some SPOILERS)

Post by wolf »

basic invisibility potion can do the job.
Ssschah wrote:I'm sad that we can't visit Barrea :(
The only thing I disliked about the game was that you could pay 2000 gold for access to an area that you cannot enter. "Turn back-your fate awaits elsewhere" :(
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Re: General Thoughts on Book III, So Far (some SPOILERS)

Post by Randomizer »

Ssschah wrote:I'm sad that we can't visit Barrea :(
The only thing I disliked about the game was that you could pay 2000 gold for access to an area that you cannot enter. "Turn back-your fate awaits elsewhere" :(
It's for players that forget their trade goods. :)
[+] SPOILER
There is some nice loot if you blast your way inside.
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Re: General Thoughts on Book III, So Far (some SPOILERS)

Post by Weird Heather »

I have finished the game, and I think it is quite successful. The story and the maps are well thought out, and the difficulty is well balanced.

The size of the game world is smaller than Book II, and it seems roughly comparable to Book I, but almost every outdoor map has many points of interest. There are a few places where future expansions could easily be added. The place where one pays 2000 gold to pass, only to be turned back, looks like it is designed for this. Will there be a Fathamurk-style expansion in the future? Or is that place there for fans to make their own additions when the development tools are available? Mirkland could also be expanded to the west and south, and new caves could easily be added to any of the mountains.

Monster resistances require some changes to strategies that might have worked in Books I and II. Since some monsters are completely immune to certain forms of attack, it is necessary to have a back-up option or two. You can't kill insect swarms with piercing weapons, but you can smash them with your hands or a bludgeoning weapon, and spells can certainly destroy them. Other creatures are immune to certain types of magic, so your favorite spell might fail. I like this change; it creates a bit of a penalty for characters who are overspecialized.

As with the previous games, certain skills seem to be less useful than others, although the specifics have changed. Alchemy was overpowered in Book II due to the unlimited reagent supply available to characters who develop the foraging skill, but in Book III, it seems like it would be too difficult to be a specialized alchemist. Foraging has been scaled back to a more realistic level, which is for the best, but I have noticed that reagents in shops are in very short supply compared to Book I and II, rendering the skill marginally useful. I noticed this fairly early and decided not to bother developing the alchemy skill. Other than this, the usefulness of skills in Book III seems comparable to Book II. (I haven't yet tried training foraging up to the 20s or 30s. Do more useful reagents turn up for master foragers? If so, alchemy could turn out to be a viable skill.)

The puzzles are better this time around, and there are more of them. For the most part, they aren't too difficult, but they require a little thought. There was one important puzzle that I couldn't figure out, so I had to look for hints on the web, and when I found the answer, I felt a little stupid, but that is bound to happen. The secret areas are also a nice addition. At the end of the game, I had found 20 out of 30, and I just went back to an earlier save and found one more. I'm wondering where the other nine are. I suppose this means I'm not completely done exploring, which is nice.

Overall, I'm happy with it, and it will be interesting to see what happens when the development tools come out and fans start making mods and new games.
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Re: General Thoughts on Book III, So Far (some SPOILERS)

Post by SpottedShroom »

Weird Heather wrote:I haven't yet tried training foraging up to the 20s or 30s. Do more useful reagents turn up for master foragers? If so, alchemy could turn out to be a viable skill.
Yes, at higher levels both the quality of the items found and the frequency increases.
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Re: General Thoughts on Book III, So Far (some SPOILERS)

Post by munster »

I'm getting near the end, but there are still one or two frustrating areas that I just can't get into, despite everything.

On the other hand, it means I do a lot of backtracking and exploring places I might just breeze through if only following the plot linearly.

The plot is... intriguing. I still don't know who's right or who's wrong, or maybe both sides are right! :wink:

Crazy Bernard is a genius - a scorched, battered one, but a genius :D

I don't think the Mage is having as easy a time in Book III - I'm finding it tougher, both with the higher level of monsters (those goblins are a lot harder than their cousins in Book II) and you don't just rack up the points for levelling up and find high level spell scrolls lying around. I think it's definitely balanced out more now.

I can tell that I'll start playing through right over again as soon as I finish, and maybe I'll try a different build (Ranger seems like it would be a good choice this time, as attacks from a distance are the way to go here).
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Re: General Thoughts on Book III, So Far (some SPOILERS)

Post by okashii »

munster wrote:I don't think the Mage is having as easy a time in Book III
Actually I found playing a Mage in Book III rather too easy, much easier than Book II.
The only difficulty was gathering enough gold to move from Spark spell to Ice Lance, but since all you need as a mage is Elemental skill of 31, you can put all the rest of your skill points into mercantile.
No armor, no weapons, no potions required.

On my second playthrough I found that all you need to get the Ice Lance spell easily is 450 gold to identify it because you can get the spell for free from the Moonrise Underground after you steal a Gildedmoon Pendant from the goblins.

The first time I finished the game it took me ~7.2 hours, but using the above tactic and knowing what to do reduced the time of my second playthrough to 3.8 hours.

Which brings me to my only issue with Book III - it feels too short for 20$.
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Re: General Thoughts on Book III, So Far (some SPOILERS)

Post by Eddy »

Amazing people finish the game in such a short time.

I guess people who do that only focus on the quests to beat the game, not the side quests?

To each their own. For me, I like the journey. I enjoy all the quests (if they advance me towards "winning" or not).
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Re: General Thoughts on Book III, So Far (some SPOILERS)

Post by Randomizer »

I got a ranger through in about 13 hours with almost everything completed. Having enough food to not fail the True Ranger challenge gave me an incentive to hurry.
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Re: General Thoughts on Book III, So Far (some SPOILERS)

Post by SpottedShroom »

okashii wrote: Actually I found playing a Mage in Book III rather too easy, much easier than Book II.
I think mage is the easiest build in Book III. The new decreasing returns on weapon skills and drawback to using feats means that mages have the most reliable way of dealing damage. I don't think it's very different from Book II, though, except that there's a Meditation trainer which is helpful for getting the last few points you need to get to an MP regeneration cutoff.
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Re: General Thoughts on Book III, So Far (some SPOILERS)

Post by Weird Heather »

I also agree that a mage build is easy. I found the ice lance scroll that was mentioned earlier, and I also got lucky and found an invisibility scroll somewhere. Ultimately, my character had elemental trained up to 31, and I combined this with divination of 11 to gain access to numerous useful spells. In addition, I purchased all available training and used books where available in meditation, foraging, mercantile (which pays for itself in the long run), and light armor. I used skill points for some additional meditation and to train piercing weapons (a good lightweight choice that doesn't interfere with spell casting) to 15. This character was practically unbeatable and ended the game with lots of extra gold which I suppose I could have spent on more training or better armor.

It would be interesting to try this with a character, such as a fighter, ranger, or alchemist, who never uses spells of any kind. Losing access to the divination spells would make the game far more difficult.
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