Skills and Attributes

[Eschalonian]

Is there a document that explains the game mechanics in more details? I want to know, for example, exactly what 18 points of Intelligence do for you vs. 12 points, or what 8 skill points in Sword translate to in terms of hit/damage. The manual's explanation of skills and attributes is extremely vague.

[renkin]

Yeah, that's something I found a bit irritating. I wanted a fighter with divination for buffing, so I made a Healer 'cause hey, they get divination for free. Then I noticed I gained HP/level much slower than my previous fighter. More elaborate descriptions of stuff would be great in Book II.

[Fizzbizzle]

I'm fairly early into my first game of Book 1 right now, and what I'd really like to find is some description of the incremental benefits of skill and attribute points. For example, is there any benefit in increasing my Hide in Shadows skill from 1 to 2? Similarly, how about if I increase my Strength from 16 to 18, or my Concentration from 14 to 15?

As it is, I'm just guessing as to whether the skill points I'm distributing at each level gain are really doing me any good, or not.

[NinjaGremlin]

Hi,

there is a quite easy work around for that "missing" information

get the magical item for the requested skill / attribute, open
inventory, paper doll and statistic windows, then just change your outfit

2 draw backs: first: to find the item, second: only gives information for increase of about 1 - 3

I think, the effect is non linear regarding the level, but no prove for that

next; when increasing perception and that stuff, I only see resistance (elemental, toxins....) increase,
but in the attribute description, there is noted it affects many or all skills


anyhow: I like the try and error method, that gives you more freedom for replaying the game,
otherwise, you would make some spread sheet table for calculation of your super hero

although I did a potion table already, while playing the demo (gives you fire damage for 80% of mixtures...)


best wishes
NG

[BasiliskWrangler]

anyhow: I like the try and error method, that gives you more freedom for replaying the game,
otherwise, you would make some spread sheet table for calculation of your super hero

Yes, this trial-and-error method tends to be a reflection of old-school RPGs. Part of the "fun" is the experimental part of character development. Not every point added to a skill or attribute will show a noticeable change; sometimes it takes 2-3 points to reach the next "level of effect". The most important thing is to identify what your character's primary Attributes are and concentrate on pumping those up. For a Fighter it would be Strength and Endurance; for a Mage it would be Intelligence and Perception, etc. You should also have a core group of Skills that get the most points; if you are a fighter it doesn't make a lot of sense for your Cartography to be as high as your Cleaving skill.

Having a detailed chart of skill/attribute progression would be more of a Hint Book type of addition, not really a Player's Manual type of thing. This is why there is very little info about monsters and spells in the Manual either- many people like to discover this stuff on their own.

[realmzmaster]

One of the appeals of Old School-RPGs was figuring out how to level up your character. How best to spend those precious points. What skills best fit the character you are trying to build? Most of the time people are looking for lots of character information up front so they can build the uber-character.

I liked some of the Old School RPGs that required that you take advantages and disadvantages for your character. For example, you take Natural Leader as a skill, but it comes with the disadvantage of being more prone to attack and damage because you looking out for others more than yourself. Your have great strength, but one leg is damaged due to a farm accident.

You really had to think about your character and how you would develop it as you gain levels.

Party based games are a little easier when it comes to character creation and development because you specialize each character.

The single character has to be a jack of all trades with emphasis on certain attributes and skills.

The other fun aspect of Old-School RPGs was exploration without constantly being attacked by enemies (except for Bard's Tale I until it was adjusted). Gaining experience from finding items, solving puzzles, or disarming traps is fun. At the lower levels even being an errand boy can be fun. With certain Action-RPGs you are constantly being attacked. (not as much fun).
And exploration is rushed, because you do not get to look at where you are.

But remember this is MHO, YMMV.

[Eschalonian]

I have been using trial-and-error to figure out a lot of stuff. For example, I notice that raising perception to 19 gains me 1 mana point, another at 22, and another at 25. But there are a lot of things that are not observable, or at least not so easily. In particular, I have no idea what a point in Move Silently, Spot Hidden, Hide in Shadows, or Lore does. Meditation and Survival may be observable if you pay close attention and perform a LOT of trial and error. But to be honest, trying to figure this out is a waste of time; some people might get some pleasure out of it, but I don't. I want to use the time to actually play the game.

[BasiliskWrangler]

Eschalon contains two variations of skills actually...there are skills that are based on an equation where their effect increases a little bit with every point (such as Weapons, Move Silently, Spot Hidden, Hide in Shadows) and there are skills whose effects are set by a predefined table, such as Cartography and Alchemy.

With "equation based skill effects", some of the beneficial gains have to be rounded, so for example if you can deliver a maximum of 17 points of damage with a Swords skill of 13, and you raise your Swords skill to 14 but your damage stays the same, it is because internally your maximum damage at skill 13 may have been actually calculated to 16.8, and at 14 it may be 17.3, but either way it rounds to 17. You'll notice this isn't the case with your maximum carrying weight, which uses a tenth-place decimal. That always reflects a change in your stats (Strength, Concentration, disease, etc) because it has more fidelity.

With "table based skills effects", there is usually notable change every 2-3 skill points. However, many skills like Cartography, we allow more frequent changes to the skill early on, then start spacing the beneficial effects out as you become more skilled. It takes more and more "dedication" to see the new effects.

[Farwalker]

I'll throw another two cents into the pot.

Thought I'd try out the demo this weekend, and so far it looks very good.

My biggest disappointment has been the lack of documentation on basic game mechanics / character function details / stat development.

It's true that a big part of the fun is exploring and figuring things out. However, it's also true that a big part of the fun is poring over the rules and tables and options to come up with your character. At least, it certainly is to me if we're talking about an "old school" rpg.

Thanks

[Sentinel]

Hi!
I finally figured out how to calculate ToHit, MaxDamage, Armor Rating, Encumberance, HpGain, HpRegen and many moore of them by playing and watching how the character stats develop. I think it was like great fun for me!

But still there is one nasty little secret : resistance scores
toxins resistance = something*(STR + END) + survival. (something -> log or log10 in some way maybe?)
Can someone help me or guide me with this? Thanks.