Some more on Translation

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RezoApio
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Some more on Translation

Post by RezoApio »

BW,

Thanks again for anwsering my question on translation. Some more on that subject.

First thing first : Should I say that I would gladly build a team for the french translation :oops: or was it clear enough already :lol: ?

Now back to work: Will you agree/be able to provide translation strings a little in advance to translation team so we could make it happen at the same time of the English version ? (even if you said a few weeks later in your post) (maybe that could even be a part of the beta testing phase ?)

What format will be used for translation ? po editor ? (this is the one used on the battle of wesnoth project sorry for the pub ;-)) Have you thought of providing a way (an easy one ?) for gender distinction in language ? In english there is the her/his and such like but for many languages there may be more difficulties on that subject. And it is always difficult to gain enough context on translation if you have not the application running at the exact place.

Have you managed to deal with the cyrilic issue ? (not that I speak lots of russian myself but...)

There are also some other thing to think of like the length of text if they are to appear on a specific place. Things like substitution, like the need to put the name of a person you dealt with or a summary of a past action in the flow of dialog. And there is the thing like the riddles. Most difficult thing to translate but they are the cherry on the translation work. However if there is a visual hint in one of the sprite (like a letter carved in the stone above the chest you have to open with the riddle), it needs to be planned for modification in the language pack...

Some quick thought on that subject that matters for me :P

Thanks again
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BasiliskWrangler
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Re: Some more on Translation

Post by BasiliskWrangler »

Absolutely nothing more has been considered in regards to translation. :( What we are doing now is keeping 98% of the text in external .txt files so that it can be translated line-by-line using a word processor. In the text we use symbols for help in substituting words....for example, $ means to use the player's character name in the text. Asterisks * are used to force a carriage return. I picked symbols that would not come up in other languages or be needed to be used in the text itself (for example, I don't say that a sword is $90, but rather 90 gold pieces.)

One concern of mine is that some of the in-game messages are still hard-coded into the engine, so for example if you get an error while saving it will still come up in English. I probably need to move all of those messages to an external file as well. <sigh> So much to do..... :|

I have not done any tests with alternate fonts (containing Cyrillic characters). What I might do is when we go beta, if you want to attempt to translate the demo portion of the game you can help me with this and let me know what works and what doesn't. I probably won't (or can't) get serious about translations without some outside help, and we can't start on that until we are locked-down in terms of storyline and game features.
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RezoApio
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Re: Some more on Translation

Post by RezoApio »

BW,

I18N (Internationalization) is a big project in itself. I have plenty of professionnal experience in that field, so if you want some out-of-the-forum chat, it'd be a pleasure.

Regarding the * to force a carriage return, maybe you can allow you code to recognize some html tags (the most classical ones, like <p> to change paragraph, &nbsp; which allow the very useful unbreakable space (normally required in french because it is used before all double punctuation mark like ! ? ; : in order to make sure the mark stays with the correct word), maybe also <b></b> to allows BOLD etc etc)

I understand that it cannot be your priority at the moment but just keep it in mind to prevent the need for a large rewrite of the code in the end. (especially if you have visual object with words in them).

And yes, I would gladly do the french translation for the demo part of the game in the beta phase so you can see if everything is ok at that level.
(already marked my agenda for it, just remind me the exact weeks it will be :lol: )
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Re: Some more on Translation

Post by RezoApio »

May I, as a native french speaker, speak for the hundred millions of gamers that do not speak english ? some of them speaking language that requires other code pages and need for specific fonts as BW knows quite well. (welcome Russian players :D )

Indeed, I18N is a big work. IMHO to use worth only in economics terms is a bad choice because it reduces the world to the english speaking people who are quite a minority (even in the US if I exagerate just a little the spanish speaking population). And even in economic terms, accesing a far greater user base cannot be a bad choice especially because having a software able to handle properly I18N issues will let your fan base be able to offer you translation work.

And the issue for BW is not to Translate. Just to think the code to be able to handle translation properly. Anybody with more coding skill than me would be able to review the code of Battle of Wesnoth to see how they handle this (sorry again for the pub).

Probably because I am not an english native speaker, I am far more concerned with offering the possibility to young people (my son of 10 speaks french and spanish but does not speak english yet for example and I would love to offer him the game) to enjoy quite the best game I have seen in years.

Kind regards from Paris.
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BasiliskWrangler
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Re: Some more on Translation

Post by BasiliskWrangler »

Jedi_Learner wrote:But the question remains, is it worth the time and effort to translate?
I think it is, especially how I plan to do it. I am going to make translations a "fan effort" and I only have to maintain the English version of the game.

We will not sell or support versions of the game in multiple languages, but rather there will only be the English version for sale. After the game is released, we will offer various individuals/groups the chance to translate the game, and when they complete the translation we will put it up as a downloadable "Language Pack" on our website. Players can download the free language pack and drop it in the game's /data directory and it would change the language of the game.

I have had probably 30 people offer to translate Book I into several different languages; most of these people just want the chance to translate the game so they can play it in their native language. This would be considered a fan-based mod, so the license will stipulate that it cannot be sold. As fans complete the translations, we'll keep the latest version of that language module online and others just need to purchase the full English version and then grab the language pack of their choice.

Of course, since this is not professionally translated, we run the risk of someone poorly translating the game, but others should be able to point out errors and we can correct them fairly easily.
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micks
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Re: Some more on Translation

Post by micks »

Well, I for one am a professional translator and, much like RezoApio, would be delighted to work on a translation, so you can count me in.

As for whether this makes any sense -- just like Basilisk said, it comes at little extra cost to BG (unless keeping all text strings in external files proves to be more of a headache than initially foreseen) and it will most probably generate some extra sales which is never a bad thing.
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Getharn
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Re: Some more on Translation

Post by Getharn »

I concur that internationalisation is always more of a pain than you think it's going to be. Having said that, I would have thought that things like error messages aren't quite so important to translate, since they tend to be fixed messages that are easy for people to Google or similar. Obviously having everything in the native language is ideal, though.

If you're going to go the whole hog, you let yourself in for a world of hurt, speaking from a small amount of personal experience of internationalising web-based applications. Allowing translation to European-derived languages is hard enough, right-to-left languages suddenly make things a lot harder, top-to-bottom harder still, and pictographic languages also cause some serious problems. I suspect there are "compromise" methods of dealing with some of these (such as presenting top-to-bottom languages in a left-to-right way), but nonetheless, things get tricky.

However, if you can cover a good set of the European-derived languages, at least that covers quite a chunk of population, and opens up the potential for many other people to play the game in a second language they happen to know. This is, of course, a Good Thing™.

If I knew any other languages I'd offer to translate, mais mon français est très mauvais, und Mein Deutsch ist noch schlimmer. If you want me to translate anything into British English, let me know... ;-)
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Re: Some more on Translation

Post by BasiliskWrangler »

If anyone wants to do so, you could start by translating the creature profiles. We already have a French translation of each profile which we will put online soon. Just translate the text and email me the document (Word or OpenOffice), and we'll get the profiles updated.
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Re: Some more on Translation

Post by DetlevH »

I am a volunteer for the german translation. :D

I just translated Depths of Peril into german. See http://www.soldak.com and have a look on the mods page of DoP.

I was a quite big job but lots of fun.

I think we can benefit from the job Steven (CEO Soldak) did and the experiences he got making DOP translatable. :idea:

Anyone who wants to help me?
Regards,

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BasiliskWrangler
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Re: Some more on Translation

Post by BasiliskWrangler »

info AT basiliskgames DOT com
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Re: Some more on Translation

Post by tempsanity »

Ok, you can count me in for Polish translation. I do not know how much I will be able to translate, but at least I'll start the task for the future Polish team :)

Could you put the descriptions/things to translate in a separate topic for now, for the sake of convenience? I must leave soon so I cannot look for them now. If they are available somewhere on the page/forum, please let me know.

Read you later.

Edit: Btw. I hope that special characters like ś, ż, ł, ó, ę, ą will be supported for Polish lg.

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Re: Some more on Translation

Post by confused1 »

I can help with the Spanish translation. But if someone already translated the monster profiles, it doesn't make sense to do it again...so I'm just letting you know.
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Re: Some more on Translation

Post by tempsanity »

So, can you point me to the monster profiles? Do I need a full version of the game? (I cannot look into it at the moment).
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Re: Some more on Translation

Post by BasiliskWrangler »

http://basiliskgames.com/book2.html

Look half-way down for the links to the monster profiles.

We have a French and Spanish translation already done, I just haven't had the time to post them yet.
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Re: Some more on Translation

Post by tempsanity »

Thank you. I should be able to send the translation within a week (depends on my workload).
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