GOLD: Neverwinter Nights 2

[Gallifrey]

I wouldn't count on it being that open ended for exploration. Though the unavoidable NPC situation is being overhauled I believe, so there (allegedly) won't be NPCs you *must* take or cannot rid yourself of.

[Saxon1974]

I wouldn't count on it being that open ended for exploration. Though the unavoidable NPC situation is being overhauled I believe, so there (allegedly) won't be NPCs you *must* take or cannot rid yourself of.

While I found the forced PC's annoying, especially Neeshka (I kind of liked the Dwarf though), I could have lived with that if I could have explored in a more open ended way. I will definitely be reading many reviews of this and if it doesn't appear more open ended I wont be getting it. I didnt think the first NWN was great, but at least you could wander around and explore somewhat so it was playable for me.....

[Saxon1974]

I have been playing some of the fan created mods for NWN2 and to be honest, I think they are better than the official campaign.

Im currently playing this one and enjoying it quite a bit. It still is a bit linear, but hard not to be linear when your making a small mod fractions of the size of the game.

I think I will come in around 10 hours or so playing this so It has been quite fun.

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NW ... ent_page=4

[Grue]

Thanks for the tip.

I bought NWN2 when it was released and played it for a month or so. For all of that time, I was hoping that it would get better soon, that it would get more interesting soon. That didn't happen and I ran out of steam/hope around the time I got to the big city (Neverwinter?).

I've read that the game actually starts to get going, so to speak, once you get to the city, so I've been thinking of trying it again, but never got around to it. A fan-made module might be just what I need. Maybe it'll spark my interest in NWN2 again. We'll see.

(Note: I haven't read this thread through. I might be repeating what everyone has said a dozen times already. If so, apologies.)

[Saxon1974]

Thanks for the tip.

I bought NWN2 when it was released and played it for a month or so. For all of that time, I was hoping that it would get better soon, that it would get more interesting soon. That didn't happen and I ran out of steam/hope around the time I got to the big city (Neverwinter?).

I've read that the game actually starts to get going, so to speak, once you get to the city, so I've been thinking of trying it again, but never got around to it. A fan-made module might be just what I need. Maybe it'll spark my interest in NWN2 again. We'll see.

(Note: I haven't read this thread through. I might be repeating what everyone has said a dozen times already. If so, apologies.)

My biggest complaints about the NWN2 engine are still the combat and camera controls. I can deal with the camera, its just annoying that you have to keep moving the camera to be able to see things.

As to the combat, its the same reason I hate real time combat.....You can really only focus on one or 1 characters at most and have to constantly pause to try and manage battles, but its still basically chaos, would be so much better turn based.

The fan made mod page on the link I gave has the top rated mods, so I decided to make a level 1 characters and play it up to about level 4 to 6 then play a level 4 to 6 mod and then a level 8 to 10 etc....That way you still get enough play to equal up close to a full fledged game.

Playing through some fan made mods really makes me realize that game companies now only focus on the game engine and graphics, as the couple of fan made modules I have played are much better than the NWN2 offical campaign.

[Grue]

As to the combat, its the same reason I hate real time combat.....You can really only focus on one or 1 characters at most and have to constantly pause to try and manage battles, but its still basically chaos, would be so much better turn based.

I hear you. The combat in NWN2 can get annoying (and confusing) really fast and because there is so much of it, it has a big impact on the entire game experience. The first thing I did, was to turn off the NPC party members' AI. It is abysmal - Artificial Stupidity would be a better name for it. As you said, you basically have to pause the game every few seconds and micro-manage your characters if you want to be effective in combat. Turn-based combat would have been a better solution, especially when you have multiple characters to control (and magic using characters). Unfortunately, I don't think we will see turn-based RPGs from the big companies anymore.

P.S. The way NWN2 handles resting (and thus healing) is really idiotic. You can hit the "rest" key almost anywhere and recover back to full HP. Only if there are enemies really close are you not able to use it. This destroys any suspence you might have had in combat and without suspence there isn't much point to combat really, it becomes mindless hack and slash, IMO.

[gragnak]

Yes. I agree.
I found boring all the combat and rest system.
I could be an old nostalgic man...but while uninstalling NWN 2 I was searching my archive for Shadows over Riva cd.
Old school... turn based.... atmosphere.... Why older games with worse gfx could be so great?

[Grue]

Old school... turn based.... atmosphere.... Why older games with worse gfx could be so great?

Heh, that's easy to answer. Because they actually have to be good games, first and foremost, as they cannot lean on flashy graphics (and just be pretty games). You said it yourself - atmosphere.

[Saxon1974]

I agree with what both you said, the resting and AI is really horrible. My mage runs straight at enemies sometimes and gets himself killed.

Gragnak, very good point about how newer games are so much worse than older games.

I am continually amazed at how things like that get ignored in mainstream game reviews these days.

[Saxon1974]

I wouldn't count on it being that open ended for exploration. Though the unavoidable NPC situation is being overhauled I believe, so there (allegedly) won't be NPCs you *must* take or cannot rid yourself of.

While I found the forced PC's annoying, especially Neeshka (I kind of liked the Dwarf though), I could have lived with that if I could have explored in a more open ended way. I will definitely be reading many reviews of this and if it doesn't appear more open ended I wont be getting it. I didnt think the first NWN was great, but at least you could wander around and explore somewhat so it was playable for me.....

I was at best buy over the weekend and saw a copy of NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer expansion for 20$ so I picked it up.

Played it today for about 5 hours, and I am pleasantly surprised at how much better it is than the original game. The NPC's and companions are much more interesting, the environments feel much more alive. It's not completely linear like the first game, its not that open ended either but its un-linear enough for me to be ok with it. You can do quests in different areas of the game in what order you like, so it's good enough for me. The area's to explore seem to have much more detail to them and I am enjoying walking around and finding things in this game. There are quite a few choices as well as to how to solve quests and have to respond to people.

I guess only complaints are the combat is still the same, good grief I can't believe anyone really thinks real-time works well an RPG, and Im not super fond of playing at Epic levels but it works pretty well here I think.

[Tauschitz]

What really amazing is that amount of choice and consequence in the game.

See the review at the usually hyper-critical RPG Codex

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=159

Both MOTB and the Westgate mod look really, really good. Oh, and I ended up disliking the OC for NWN2.

[Saxon1974]

What really amazing is that amount of choice and consequence in the game.

See the review at the usually hyper-critical RPG Codex

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=159

Both MOTB and the Westgate mod look really, really good. Oh, and I ended up disliking the OC for NWN2.

Yes that review was part of the reason I picked up the game, I agree with the codex on the quality of RPG's for the most part.

[Grue]

Thanks for the link. Haven't been following RPG Codex that closely and had missed the review.

After reading that review, with Vault Dweller (who does not give away praise too often) saying something like, "It’s definitely, 100% one of the best RPGs I've ever played," it surely piques my interest. And with you guys liking it too, I think I might just have to go and get the expansion. What the hey, it's pretty cheap.

Funny how the spirit meter/soul eating thingy has been critisized in many non-RPG game sites. It's been called something like a "needless complication", "irritating", "gimmicky", "too complex" and whatnot. I nearly believed the critisism, until I read what it really was (if we trust Vault Dweller) and thought, it might actually be a good thing from the game's point of view. If nothing else, it seems like an interesting idea - have to reserve judgement until I see it in action.

Even with comments that the Epic level stuff is okay in the expansion, I'm still somewhat reserved about playing at such high levels. If/when a game starts having stuff like "Sword of Uberness +7" (it goes well with the "Codpiece of Machismo" by the way ) and spells that decimate entire continents (give or take a country), having you fight Dark Lords of Evilness Mk. 1 and 2 along with their fiendish army of Giant Dire Hamsters of Doom (err, you're getting the point already, methinks ), I quickly lose interest. Sorry, that almost became a rant.

Hopefully, MotB won't fall into the trap of "bigger equals better." We'll see.

[Saxon1974]

Thanks for the link. Haven't been following RPG Codex that closely and had missed the review.

After reading that review, with Vault Dweller (who does not give away praise too often) saying something like, "It’s definitely, 100% one of the best RPGs I've ever played," it surely piques my interest. And with you guys liking it too, I think I might just have to go and get the expansion. What the hey, it's pretty cheap.

Funny how the spirit meter/soul eating thingy has been critisized in many non-RPG game sites. It's been called something like a "needless complication", "irritating", "gimmicky", "too complex" and whatnot. I nearly believed the critisism, until I read what it really was (if we trust Vault Dweller) and thought, it might actually be a good thing from the game's point of view. If nothing else, it seems like an interesting idea - have to reserve judgement until I see it in action.

Even with comments that the Epic level stuff is okay in the expansion, I'm still somewhat reserved about playing at such high levels. If/when a game starts having stuff like "Sword of Uberness +7" (it goes well with the "Codpiece of Machismo" by the way ) and spells that decimate entire continents (give or take a country), having you fight Dark Lords of Evilness Mk. 1 and 2 along with their fiendish army of Giant Dire Hamsters of Doom (err, you're getting the point already, methinks ), I quickly lose interest. Sorry, that almost became a rant.

Hopefully, MotB won't fall into the trap of "bigger equals better." We'll see.

I don't like it as much as Vault Dweller and I dont think its great, but It is good and I think its well worth 20$, its a huge improvment from the original campaign. The spirit meter is not that confusing, I think the people that find it confusing are the ones that want to be handheld and not think in a game.

They have announced another premium module, so if its the same quality as this and decent priced this is a good sign I think.

[Grue]

I don't like it as much as Vault Dweller and I dont think its great, but It is good and I think its well worth 20$, its a huge improvment from the original campaign.

OK. Well, even if it is "just" good, it's more than all right for the lower price (however, it is 30 Euros here in Euroland, which is almost double what you paid for it - *grumble, grumble*).

I went to my closest game store to get MotB yesterday, but to my disappointment it was sold out. They said they'll get more by the end of the week or latest early next week. As I didn't want to go home empty handed, I bought the Witcher instead. Not wanting to derail yet another thread ( ), I'll put my comments about it in the thread about the Witcher (logical, eh?).