pick locks vs. bludgeoning weapons?

[sh4dow]

really? bashing destroys items inside chests? now THAT would be essential information! O_O

[KillingMoon]

Is it true that bashing a chest can break the contents? I've always been picking locks, so I don't know. When I did a search on the forums I only came across this as a suggestion, not as an implemented feature. It could be a bit problematic to implement as well, considering some chest hold plot dependent material.
There are barrels in the game that only can be bashed - or fire darted or something - but I never got a hint of destroyed contents.

An alternative way to open a door that hasn't been mentioned yet, but is quick and doesn't require any skill, is of course to use an explosive barrel; Boomm! Except you want to use those barrels wisely, because there aren't exactly tons of them on the map.

[sh4dow]

i found another posting where it was said that contents cannot be destroyed through bashing.

as for the powder kegs: yeah... i keep running out of those even though i obviously rarely use them. used some in combat - that was a big mistake. now i have a couple of rocks to blast through and that dragonel's nest and only one powder keg left -_-

[Evnissyen]

Well, I did a quick check on Abygale's chest in Book I (Aridell), since that was the one I knew was filled with potions... when you bash it open with a big ax: the potions are intact. Surprise, surprise!

...That means I was confusing it with another game. Probably Neverwinter Nights 2, Mask of the Betrayer & Dragon Age Origins, where: if you bash a chest, your delicates get broke. I know it's in at least one of the games I've played a lot.

...Confirmed, though: you do get significant XP for picking a lock (as well as disarming a trap, of course).

But aside from the pick lock skill, of course, Dex is helpful (though the Pick Locks skill, naturally, is more helpful (reference: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4150&p=34103&hilit ... cks#p34103 : there's a note on this at the end of one of my long posts)). My warrior in Book I sucked at picking locks, but my ranger in Book II had only moderate to mild trouble with difficult locks:



(note, of course, not all my skills are shown here, but the relevant one is.)

So, I guess: if you have a character who relies on high dexterity: invest in pick locks. If you have a mage or warrior: bash or melt lock, but like others have said: mind your weapon if you choose to bash.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

Bashing chests does not hurt the contents. The time it takes to bash a chest or door is dependent on the quality of the chest or door, not on the quality of the lock (for some reason you can never get smart enough to just bash the lock rather than the whole chest). In Book I, there was nothing you could open with pick locks or Lock Melt that you could not also open through bashing. There is one such object in Book II (it never takes damage, so you cannot bash it open).

Another point to note, so far as I've been able to determine, the special named weapons in Book II never deteriorate with use, even endless smashing on doors and chests.

Dex combined with your Pick Lock skill determines your chance to pick a lock, so characters whose weapon of choice requires Dex for better function do well to also invest in Pick Locks. Characters who depend on Strength for their weapon do better to just pound everything into submission (understanding that you will miss out on that one openable object, but it's not that big a deal).

[KillingMoon]

So, I guess: if you have a character who relies on high dexterity: invest in pick locks. If you have a mage or warrior: bash or melt lock, but like others have said: mind your weapon if you choose to bash.

Dex combined with your Pick Lock skill determines your chance to pick a lock, so characters whose weapon of choice requires Dex for better function do well to also invest in Pick Locks. Characters who depend on Strength for their weapon do better to just pound everything into submission (understanding that you will miss out on that one openable object, but it's not that big a deal).

It's not as black and white as that. A couple of points;

Dexterity is such an allround attribute that it makes sense for almost any character to invest in it. Strength helps your damage, dexterity helps your hit rate and your defense. A warrior would normally invest in both.
You don't need to have dexterity as your main attribute to still be able to open every lock.
Looking at Evnissyen's ranger; 11 points in pick locks and a very high dex, it'll work with less than that. I played as a warrior, with a much lower dexterity, but I used nimbleness (I forgot whether it was a potion or a spell) to boost my dexterity temporarily and still didn't have too much problem with the locks.
I think only for a pure mage it's not logical to invest in dexterity. Not many players play as a pure mage, though.

The second point I want to make is that, although I think that every build can afford to train in pick locks, it's an investment that never really pays off if you compare the gains with the pains.
Look at Evnissyen ranger again; let's say he has invested 9 skill points in pick locks here; 9 + 2 from thief's gloves = 11. That is indeed what you roughly need in my view.
Now, 9 skillpoints is the investment of 3 level-ups, as you get 3 per level.
You'll get XP from picking locks, so that's your return, but that's nowhere near enough for 3 levels and get those invested points back.

I've picked every available lock in the only play-through I've finished (yup, also the one in my own cabin) and managed nearly every trap, did every quest except Sparrow's, killed every hostile being and played on hardcore, but I still was only level 18 in the end - if memory serves me right. That's as high as you get without cheating (pre Fathamurk expansion this is), but I don't think I would have been lower without all those locks and traps, perhaps a single level, depending on the margin.

So my advice about taking pick locks as a skill would be: just pick it depending on your taste, it'll fit in fine with most builds, know that dexterity is the supporting attribute, but it's a bit of a luxury skill and if you want to take the short route - bashing - you can just as well do without it.
Except with one caveat: I haven't bashed stuff open myself so I don't know how quickly your weapons get damaged, and if you're using unarmed combat with just one or two bar brawlers rings, I don't know how patient you are either...

[sh4dow]

as i've already said - damage to bludgeoning weapons is relatively little (i never had to repair a hammer while knocking down a chest/door). although you might wanna have at least one point in repair, otherwise that strategy could be a bit pricey.

and using your primary weapon for bashing is definitely not a good idea unless it's made out of really, really hard material; you are really, really strong and the target is really, really weak - so that you are done within a couple of hits.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

Killing Moon,

I think you must have missed some other quest (or perhaps skipped the bells), because I've been level 20 or 21 at the end of every playthrough of Book II before the Fathamurk expansion, and I don't waste time camping for XP.

Also, with the 9 skill levels you mentioned, most likely the first (which otherwise would have been a 3 point investment) came from a book, so 8 points invested to get to level 9.

You're right, though, that the decision is never really as simple as I laid it out. That's a guideline, but this being an open-world RPG, each person can do what they feel like for the particular play-through. Sometimes it's fun to challenge yourself with weird stuff.

And, Sh4dow, as I noted, if your primary weapon is one of the named weapons, you never have to worry about damaging it as I've never seen them take any damage (and I had my bludgeoning fighter pounding through a lot of stuff with his--once I got it from those pesky dwarves).

[KillingMoon]

Killing Moon,

I think you must have missed some other quest (or perhaps skipped the bells), because I've been level 20 or 21 at the end of every playthrough of Book II before the Fathamurk expansion, and I don't waste time camping for XP.

Also, with the 9 skill levels you mentioned, most likely the first (which otherwise would have been a 3 point investment) came from a book, so 8 points invested to get to level 9.

Then it's my memory that's off, I know how reliable that is... I don't know why the 18 sticks in my mind, maybe I was level 18 when I made the crossing to Picaroon.
Hopefully you'll find that book for your first point, yes, and hopefully you'll find some gear with a dexterity bonus as well, but those 9 points were just a rough total of what you can expect to invest. Give or take a point, that's fine.

[sh4dow]

And, Sh4dow, as I noted, if your primary weapon is one of the named weapons, you never have to worry about damaging it as I've never seen them take any damage (and I had my bludgeoning fighter pounding through a lot of stuff with his--once I got it from those pesky dwarves).

may well be but chances are that once you get there, you already know about these things anyway. it's more a matter of not selling all weapons you loot in the beginning of the game and then being forced to rest more often than necessary to repair the one weapon one uses for everything.

[sh4dow]

i just found out something possibly very interesting... if i'm not mistaken, loot in chests is always the same on highest difficulty (not on different playthroughs i assume but you can't keep on reloading to try to get different items?) except... i just smashed the same chest twice and also picked its lock twice. when i smashed it, i got different items than when i picked it! but within the different methods, i still got the same items both times.

[KillingMoon]

Interesting indeed, I didn't know that.

And yes, 'preserve random seed' means you can't get different loot from chests after a reload, that's the setting you're talking about.
Perhaps you can even pick that setting without completely going hardcore.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

That is interesting. I thought that with the fixed random seed option, the contents of chests were essentially set as soon as you first entered a particular map.

[Evnissyen]

That is interesting. I thought that with the fixed random seed option, the contents of chests were essentially set as soon as you first entered a particular map.

That's the impression I got, too: once he re-entered the same region later he'd get a different seed... though I've no idea in the world why a smashed chest would reconstitute itself.

[sh4dow]

why would you get a different seed upon reentering a region? if the loot is supposed to stay the same, why would the seed ever change?