nobody is going to like this camping suggestion...

[Lord_P]

Or a trainer, like in Book I. It was a nice idea, since the increasing fees limited new characters, so that they couldn't get lvl 8 cartography instantly.

[Necromis]

Some people here are griping about adding it, but I think that is rather selfish.

Some people? I'm the only one in this topic that has "griped" about adding this feature. The rest are neutral or in favour. Apart from selfish is there anything else you want to call me?

My apologise if that was taken out of context, the written word is subject to the readers assumption of the writers inflection when typing their comments. I was not, as BW says, saying you are specifically a selfish person or not entitled to your opinion. My thoughts are simply that just because someone does not like an option and feels it should not be included, does not mean that it is not a valid option that should be just that an option.

PM, I like your comments and thoughts and your game knowledge is invaluable. My thoughts are simply let their be the option for everyone to be able to play the game to their liking. Now as BW has stated III won't have this option. I would probably have never used the option, but for those that are used to it as a standard option in other games it would have probably slightly increased sales, and also made it a more enjoyable experience for others who think such things should be standard.

[Magellus]

I will add something very early in the game to help people get a basic map going without spending a bunch of points on it.

Im assuming you already have your own ideas about what form this might take, but would something like a 'local' map purchasable from a town, sound like a good idea?

It seems like it wouldnt be too much of a stretch of the imagination that a traveller might pay some gold to an innkeeper for a general map of the local area - a general outline of town locations and roads connecting them.

You could even go with variations of the same theme, you might buy a more comprehensive map set from a retired traveller, showing larger areas or more detail or perhaps an unscrupulous innkeeper would give you a slightly altered map to lead you into an ambush if you follow the road?

Edit: Aaaaand I can see this has already been suggested in other topics already

[Unbeliever]

ARGH! This is what I get for not checking the forum often enough.

BW actually had the optional full automap checkbox feature I'd been wishing for; now it sounds like the naysayers talked him down.

Oh well. I'm buying the game no matter what, so it's not about making a sale on MY part. I just really hate spending skill points that should go toward improving my CHARACTER, on improving the INTERFACE instead. And I could care less about "score" (especially if other stats are kept, so we can see how well we did by other means), so any proposed score reduction would be fine.

So one last plea: BW, please keep the checkbox. It wouldn't necessarily have to be FULL cartography -- I'd be happy with something around the 66% mark where we're well past the basics, but could still benefit from an item or two that boosts cartography...

If hunger and thirst (which would otherwise be pretty much "core gameplay") can be optional, surely cartography could be, too.

And thanks for caring enough to get E3 right, no matter how long it takes.

[BasiliskWrangler]

BW actually had the optional full automap checkbox feature I'd been wishing for; now it sounds like the naysayers talked him down.

Heh. Hehe. Hehehaheheh. Ehehehe, hahahahaha, aaaaahahahahahahahaha, AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Despite Prismatic's maniacal laugh, he is not the reason it was taken out. It's just...it didn't feel like something that should be in Eschalon. The automap idea was a feature that was most talked about in Book 1, and we just decided to carry it forward as-is. No need to make such a drastic change to the game just for a few people.

There is, however, going to be a way that you can boost your cartography up to a very basic level early in the game.

[Painted Lady]

There is, however, going to be a way that you can boost your cartography up to a very basic level early in the game.

Uh oh, spoiler alert

[Randomizer]

You find a compass.

[KillingMoon]

Every time we camp, there is a little tent and fire. Maybe have a tent be part of the standard inventory (5-10lbs, considering it's probably oiled/waxed canvas or some such?), but if we don't have that in our inventory when camping, we are subjected to reduced recovery rates (or possibly even damage/risk of disease) in inclement weather or hostile environments. Also, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to have this penalty reduced by the foraging/survival skill, as the character would have the experience/knowledge to find or set up a quick improvised shelter or something.

pretty minor detail and all, but it just sorta occurred to me, and felt I had to share it...

I'm not checking this forum regularly anymore, so sorry for such a late reply, but I agree with the suggestion.
I find camping too much of a quick fix for anything in the game. I believe I've also once suggested the tent as an inventory item, then you would have a weight advantage when you didn't take it along with you. Alternatively there could be a no camping achievement. Certainly Book II is quite possible to do without ever camping, so there could be something in the mechanics to encourage this style of play.

I have considered requiring special items to be in your inventory in order for some skills and actions to work, such as:

- A tent, in order to camp.
- A crafting hammer and scrap metal, for the Repair skill.
- Medicinal herbs, for the Medical skill.
- A compass, for Quick Travel.

I find requiring a hammer for repair or medicinal herbs for medicine not the same thing. To gain those skills you need to spend skill points first, so there is a penalty already in place for balance.
Quick travel is more to speed up the game rather than to gain an advantage in my view. I even see quick travel as something outside the story of the game. I would find it strange if you would need an item for this.
I'm not sure whether you referenced these things because you thought they were comparable, but for me they're not. Yes, the solutions are comparable, but not the cases you would be applying them to.

[IJBall]

Every time we camp, there is a little tent and fire. Maybe have a tent be part of the standard inventory (5-10lbs, considering it's probably oiled/waxed canvas or some such?), but if we don't have that in our inventory when camping, we are subjected to reduced recovery rates (or possibly even damage/risk of disease) in inclement weather or hostile environments. Also, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to have this penalty reduced by the foraging/survival skill, as the character would have the experience/knowledge to find or set up a quick improvised shelter or something.

pretty minor detail and all, but it just sorta occurred to me, and felt I had to share it...

I'm not checking this forum regularly anymore, so sorry for such a late reply, but I agree with the suggestion.
I find camping too much of a quick fix for anything in the game. I believe I've also once suggested the tent as an inventory item, then you would have a weight advantage when you didn't take it along with you. Alternatively there could be a no camping achievement. Certainly Book II is quite possible to do without ever camping, so there could be something in the mechanics to encourage this style of play.

And what would be the point of doing something like this, when BW has already said that 'Fatigue' is not being added as an Option to Book III?!

And what would be the point of making "No Camping" an "achievement" when there is absolutely no in-game penalty for doing so without adding 'Fatigue' to the game?!

There is no point in changing something like this (e.g. making camping gear weigh 10 lbs), this late in the Eschalon game-cycle. Let's just leave most things the same as in Book I and Book II. It's too late to be adding little changes to the gameplay like this at this point IMO...

[SpottedShroom]

Quick travel is more to speed up the game rather than to gain an advantage in my view. I even see quick travel as something outside the story of the game. I would find it strange if you would need an item for this.

Quick travel is in a weird halfway state. Yes, it's really just there to eliminate tedious walking through already-explored areas, but it has in-game effects. Quick travel wears out your boots, makes you accrue thirst and hunger faster, and doesn't regenerate HP or MP.

Come to think of it, I'd like to see the boot wear removed in Book III. All it did in Book II was make you take your boots off before you quick travel and then put them back on. Or maybe make you take some damage if you quick travel without shoes on?

[KillingMoon]

@ IJBall, Fatigue isn't needed to make the weight of something an issue; there's encumberment already, you know that.
Lochaber made some suggestions he thought 'nobody is going to like'. Rather belatedly I'm reading what he suggests and I'm noticing it's quite similar to thoughts I had. In that manner I'm responding; I find lochaber's ideas making sense and that's all I'm saying.
With the actual development of Book III this has little to do, at least I don't see a tent as an inventory item happening, and you're right about an inconsistency issue arising when it would.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

I believe a number of us feel that Lochaber's ideas had merit in general. It's in specific to this game where we think they add more inconvenience than benefit.

[VDK]

I'm all for not messing with success. There are minor tweaks that can be made, but things like adding a tent and other necessary items for other skills (whet stone to keep your blades sharp?) starts to get into the "too much" territory. A few elements like this are great, but as you pile them on, it gets boring pretty quickly.

Yeah I know what you mean. We need to make it so there are elements of roleplaying but not add things that are uneeded.

[Calathon]

I think that having a tent in order to camp in one is a very good idea! And I also like the idea to have a whet stone, a repair hammer/needle + thread or an alchemy set in order to be able to use the corresponding skills.

Don´t get me wrong: I do not want EB III to become a survival-game, but a decent amount of items that are needed for certain skills is a benefit to the game´s immersion, in my opinion. Some of you stated that needing these items would result in less available carrying weight for loot. That is correct and I would not want the items mentioned above to have no weight at all or to not need inventory space. But speaking of weight, I think that these few additional items would not make a big difference in gameplay because being the stricken heavy armor guy that I am, dealing with encumbrance is only a matter of familiarization.
Honestly, no one would force you to buy a tent and no one would prevent you from going to town and rent a room, it would even increase its usefulness. So why not implement 4 or 5 additional items which are not weapons, armours etc. but items that are useful to some and needless to others? There is a lot of different food and I like this feature, so why not extend this to skills?

This is just my humble opinion, but I think there is no real reason to not have any (or at best: all) of the items mentiond before, no offense.

Cheers, Calathon

PS: A little bit more variety concerning beverages would be most appreciated, especially the lack of beer is really an ache to the hero's war-torn life.

[voyager39]

I agree.

In Book 2 it became too easy once you got skilled in foraging, mercantile and alchemy. One could just buy a junk piece of weapon and convert into something exotic and sell it back again. One ended up with far too much gold to know what to do with it.

And it was tempting to just camp whenever you required a 10 minute break and there were enough "safe" locations where one could just camp (forage) for days without being disturbed once.

The answer perhaps lies in having "thiefs". You sleep for too long and you risk your goodies being stolen. A very "real world" thing to happen. Either you get attacked or else you get robbed. I think it would add a really nice dimension if it can be incorporated.

Imagine waking up and finding you've lost your favourite sword/hammer/bow!