Hallherron Combat system may work for a party game

Rune_74 · Post by **Rune_74** » December 3rd, 2007, 11:47 pm

Tried this game today after seeing someone post about it in RPGwatch...very interesting oldschool game. I like the way it handles the party....you select who you want to control and then it becomes the character displayed on the screen...

However this does use a seperate combat screen...I do find the battles to be pretty tactical....it may be an option to look at.

Yes Hellherrons graphics are horrible compared to say Eschalon....but it does have some things that could be "borrowed".

If you have not played it you can find it here for free:

http://www2.lut.fi/~akuukka/helherron/main.htm

Just thought maybe some of the little things from this game could make it in. Have a look and see if you see what I mean.

PhilosophiX · Post by **PhilosophiX** » December 4th, 2007, 1:43 am

Could you perhaps divulge some of the features that this game has that you believe should be in Book II? Otherwise, and do forgive me, it just seems like your shamelessly plugging this game.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, there is actually a forum in the Drunken Lizard Pub where you can talk about other RPGs. But if you are just plugging this other game then you might want to move this post over to the proper part of the forum.

If you want to discuss the features in Book II, then please do not keep us waiting any longer.

Rune_74 · Post by **Rune_74** » December 4th, 2007, 1:58 am

OK.....why on earth would I need to shamelessly plug a game that is free and is no longer being made? Seriously.

I mentioned how it handled a party which was interesting, and its combat system was pretty tactical.

And yes it could also be in the other section of the forum, but yes it also pertains to book 2 because of the way it handles a party.

PhilosophiX · Post by **PhilosophiX** » December 4th, 2007, 2:53 am

Well the whole point of the forum is for us to suggest features that we would like to see in Eschalon Book II. It's not called the "suggest games that Basilisk Games can play to crib the engine from" forum, it's called the Book II forum. At least if you talked about what you liked about this game then we could all discuss it. Since you don't want to put that kind of effort in, then yes, to me it sounds like your just plugging your (new) favorite game. Sorry. You had the right idea in your 'Magic Candle' thread.

Rune_74 · Post by **Rune_74** » December 4th, 2007, 9:19 am

Well you are entitled to your opinion, I do not agree with you, but hey you are entitled.

I think I made it quite clear...twice now...its the party/combat system that worked quite nicely....and could be an option to have something like that....not sure I can get much clearer then this for you.

In no way did I say hey use the engine...since basilisks engine is far superior.

PhilosophiX · Post by **PhilosophiX** » December 4th, 2007, 10:45 am

So why keep us in suspense? If everyone just posted links to games that had features they liked this forum would suck. Even if we did play that game, each and every one of us would find different features we liked, so we would still be at square one without a discussion anyway.

So what is it about the game that you would like to see in Eschalon, and don't just say "the party/combat system that worked quite nicely"... the point is; why did the combat graphics engine work quite nicely for you?

Effidian · Post by **Effidian** » December 4th, 2007, 11:20 am

I played Helherron a lot and compiled this info for 2.02. The party based combat was great. A lot could be improved upon, but the game was a lot of fun. 8 character party! The tactical combat was simple but fun. Brought back memories of the Gold Box games.

I think I've come to want the first trilogy of Basilisk to be based on the same engine. Maybe do some incremental improvements between Book II and Book III, but basically keep it the same so we can get the installments faster.

However, for the *next* game, a turn based tactical combat game using a party that you create from the beginning, would be my #1 wish.

I actually like that it switches to a combat map when you encounter an enemy. That allows you to set your combat formation. When you don't switch maps you start in whatever order you are, and that never works out very well (at least I've never seen a game do that correctly, the Aurora games frustrate the hell out of me because of this issue).

Dragonlady · Post by **Dragonlady** » December 4th, 2007, 5:19 pm

Basilisk, will you lock this thread? Some people don't like to follow the rules. He's been asked nicely and ignored the advice given.

Senior spokeperson finished ranting.

Rune_74 · Post by **Rune_74** » December 4th, 2007, 6:42 pm

I'm sorry how is this against the rules I just liked the way the party combat system worked. Thought it could be something to looked at for book 2 if it was still considering a party.

I don't know about you but, a: it was pertaining to a party system that might work and b: It was anything but nice how this person responded to me.

Neither one of you know me, but if you did you would know I was not soliciting this game at all, just thought the system they employed by allowing you to select a party member to control at any given time and switching to a combat system worked nicely. I have worked with the Basilisk for awhile now and have nothing but the games best interests in mind...the reason behind not to explain the whole system and to provide a link because I thought you should actually try it to see if you saw the same thing I saw. I think it s hard system to explain if not seen is all.

Basilisk uses alot of older games to base eschalon off of, I was just not sure if this one was noticed at all...and seriously the only thing I saw that I really thought could be interesting was how it handled movement and combat.

I changed the topic heading to more explain what I meant.

screeg · Post by **screeg** » December 12th, 2007, 9:14 am

All right, I played Helherron for many many hours and I think I can elaborate a little on what Rune_74 is trying to convey:

In Helherron, you start by creating a party of 8 PCs, many different races, both genders and a bunch of clearly defined classes as well. Certain races definitely complement certain classes.

Your party moves around a (very very large) world map, with the currently selected character represented on screen. When you reach a cave or town, you switch to a more detailed map, again with one PC represented and go spelunking or exploring.

When you meet an enemy, you zoom in to a combat map that duplicates, close-up, the map you were just on. So if you were in a cave corridor, the new map would be recognizable as the same corridor, only 8x wider. Then you choose where to place your party members and they all appear.

Combat is turn-based, with each character having a number of action points. Usually you can attack/spellcast once, or move up to 3 squares and attack/spellcast. If you're really fast you can attack twice.

This brief description doesn't really do the combat justice however. The huge variability in classes and races, multi-level spellcasting (a la Eschalon) and the amount of equipment, weapons, potions, scrolls, etc. etc. make the combat highly tactical and fun.

My advice is to play this game, I promise your time will be well spent, and if you don't enjoy it I will refund you the cost out of my own pocket!

kxc · Post by **kxc** » December 12th, 2007, 9:19 am

screeg wrote: When you meet an enemy, you zoom in to a combat map that duplicates, close-up, the map you were just on. So if you were in a cave corridor, the new map would be recognizable as the same corridor, only 8x wider. Then you choose where to place your party members and they all appear.

It sounds very JRPGish...

vid · Post by **vid** » December 12th, 2007, 9:25 am

kxc wrote:
screeg wrote: When you meet an enemy, you zoom in to a combat map that duplicates, close-up, the map you were just on. So if you were in a cave corridor, the new map would be recognizable as the same corridor, only 8x wider. Then you choose where to place your party members and they all appear.
It sounds very JRPGish...

Actually quite many pc games did this in the good old times. Ultima 4-5, amberstar/ambermoon and many other had an extra combat screen.
The advantage is that you have an extra environment programming wise, so you can do practially anything, which would be normally not possible because of restrictions of the overland view.
Also a little bit of diversity helps to keep it interesting.

Rune_74 · Post by **Rune_74** » December 12th, 2007, 10:51 am

screeg wrote: My advice is to play this game, I promise your time will be well spent, and if you don't enjoy it I will refund you the cost out of my own pocket!

Except the fact that its now free game, and you at least understand why I said you had to try it to understand:)

tungprc · Post by **tungprc** » December 12th, 2007, 11:18 am

Has anybody warned this Philosophix to stop attacking everybody who comes into the forums and says something that doesn't go exactly with what he wants? I'm reading post after post of this guy "correcting" people. I don't see his name listed as a developer so his posts are no more accurate or relevant than Rune_74's. I'm kinda tired of the confrontationalism of his posts, to be honest. Back off little dude, alright?

vid · Post by **vid** » December 12th, 2007, 12:18 pm

Helherron looks like it could be fun. I will try it tonight.