movement speed is a deal breaker

[stryker]

So far, the two BIG drawbacks to me are the lack of a run feature (maybe I"m too impatient, but I like to get places fast many times) and the stinking darkness. It gets dark too fast, too often. I'd prefer perhaps a 7/8 daylight to 1/8 darkness ratio. And the torches don't give out enough light.

There's lots to like about this game, but these things REALLY detract from it. Don't get me wrong. I love a lot about this title. A lot. And I am looking forward to a PARTY-based system in Book II.

But let me RUN (like in real life) and don't keep the game so dark so often. It may not be realistic, but it adds to the fun factor.

[dak]

Just sleep through the night if you think it is annoying. As for speed a little faster would be nice, even without running just make him walk faster, but It didn't annoy me nearly as much as I thought it would, since a lot of parts of the game, you can use the time it take to walk to look for items etc etc etc.

[Laudimir]

if its too dark, get a lantern or gravedigger's flame spell. That, stacked with cats eyes, nearly make the dark a nonfactor, especially in dungeons.

I personally think darkness was done very well indeed.

[Effidian]

I'd prefer perhaps a 7/8 daylight to 1/8 darkness ratio. And the torches don't give out enough light.

That would really be a problem for those builds who rely on darkness.

[Burrito Al Pastor]

The problem is not comparing Eschalon to Diablo.

The problem is comparing Eschalon to the old-school games that inspired it. None of them play this slowly. Ultima and Wizardry weren't this slow. Console derivatives like Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy weren't this slow. PC derivatives like the Gold Box games and Realmz weren't this slow. Contemporary retro-RPGs like Avernum 5 aren't this slow either.

Exactly. In every iteration of Final Fantasy since at least VI, you've been able to run. In Baldur's Gate II, you never need to walk from point A to point B unless there's at least a dozen other things to stop and do along the way.

The game is not diablo, or a fast action rpg...it takes time.

Either this is a poor straw man, or you didn't read my post. If I wanted an action/RPG or Diablo clone, I'd go play Titan Quest or the Doom Roguelike or Hellgate: London.

Last night I reinstalled Anachronox and played it for about two hours before bed. In two hours of gameplay, do you know how far I got in the game? Nowhere. I finished the combat tutorial. But that doesn't matter, because I was doing interesting things for the entirety of those two hours; even when I was walking somewhere there were a lot of visually interesting things to look at.

My point is this: your attempts to frame me as a person with the attention span of a five-year-old are not appreciated.

You know this all reminds me of another game - People whined about a no save option and refused to buy the game till it was implemented - then when it was implemented did any of those dozen or more complainers even buy the game - NO .

Ad homeneim.

[Rune_74]

I'm sorry you felt that way, however I think there is enough to do as you walk around. I also think the speed thing will have to be looked at but I'm willing to bet that it will be a book 2 thing.

Sure everyone wants a perfect game the first time out and etc etc etc...but this is a first game and you are going to see things like this in a first game, every game you mentioned(I'm pretty sure all of them) were not indie titles and had more then one person programming them. So, there may be a bit more sandwich gameplay on an indie title at first, but as they gain experience and as they gain background this will slowly dissappear.

The sad thing is, your missing out on something good...and....you are missing out supporting a company that can make the games you want to play. Have a look at the ideas for book 2, trust me it will be deeper and more things added, but with indie titles this all takes time.

[Slarty]

The older Ultima games, as well as Realmz and all of the Avernum games, were/are indie games programmed by a single person. Not that it's relevant.

It's not an issue of prejudging the game and then whining. Everyone who's complained about movement seems to agree that the game looks great otherwise. But it really is a constant irritant for people used to faster play, and saying so is just constructive criticism.

[Iane]

True we have all said it and we all know it but we purchased the game on the whole and didn't Extort the dev into adding a feature before we made that purchase or the promise of a purchase

[leonhartt]

But it really is a constant irritant for people used to faster play, and saying so is just constructive criticism.

Initially when i play eschalon, i thought that the walking speed was slow too, but not anymore. You got to learn to appreciate book 1's uniqueness. Like Rune said, 'running' may be an added feature for book 2 in the future. So please continue to support Book 1 in the mean time.

[Rune_74]

The older Ultima games, as well as Realmz and all of the Avernum games, were/are indie games programmed by a single person. Not that it's relevant.

It's not an issue of prejudging the game and then whining. Everyone who's complained about movement seems to agree that the game looks great otherwise. But it really is a constant irritant for people used to faster play, and saying so is just constructive criticism.

Look at the games you mentioned and look how long the people making them were....the older ultimas being only the first one I believe was indie....I think only ultima 1 and even that I'm not sure about may have just been richard garriot(sp) Avernum....the guy has been doing rpg's for 18 years now....think he would be doing things without mistakes.

Like I said in my other post, its something that will most likely be a focus for book 2....if anything it is a minor flaw I would think, nothing that major to be "fixed" if even that is what is needed for book 2.

I however do not believe it is a thing that makes or brakes a game in this sense, at least not for me. I think what you failed to see in my previous post was my comments about potential and that we have to support at the beggining as well as when the developer gets to where you want him to be. Unfortunately, to give up and not support him will only make games like this go away. The future looks bright for this series, see what is in this game and tell me you do not see this.

[Slarty]

No game is perfect, and you always have to accept something that's not up to your standards, whether it's in the realm of graphics, mechanics, plot, play control, or whatever.

Different standards are more important for different people. What is a minor annoyance to one person might be a major frustration to another -- and somebody else might actually like it. So it's one thing to say "actually, I don't mind that so much," but to say "it doesn't matter" is untrue -- because to some people it might.

Ultimately a designer is going to design a game that he would enjoy playing. But feedback about what other people prefer is useful if it allows him to increase the game's audience without compromising his own vision.

I think everyone posting in this thread agrees that games like Eschalon are too rare and deserve our support!

[Necromis]

Another thing is just making creative use of the portals and quick travel options. I mean it only takes a moment to do some of the side quests after you have quick travels marked and the first walk thru those areas to get to the other areas are great for the quests and exp. I am around 3-4th level, can't remember and am at work, and I can travel between blackwater, grimhold east, border town, and airdell with easy of quickness. I still have to go get my amulet but wanted the trainers in blackwater earlier rather than later.

[realmzmaster]

I hope people are not saying that Eschalon is as slow as the gold box games or Bard's Tale. The combat in the goldbox can went from easy to down right tedious. Fight combat where you have 30 foes line up in rows and columns. The fight could last an hour+. The gold box games also had a first person perspective that gave you the feeling you were moving quicker even if you were not. Or Bard's Tale I where every five steps you were in combat. Your party spent more time dying or running back to heal up. Or are you talking about Questron I & II played out on the overland map or Final Fastasy where you can only save in certain places. I can find fault with all the games I have played over the years . None of them were perfect. The point is I tried them out. I play the demos. If the good outweighs the mediocre or bad, I purchase the game. I bought Eschalon after playing the demo for about four hours. I like it. The movement speed of the character was not a problem. The quick travel menu allowed me to zip around. The goblin portals were very useful and the portal spell is good. I can save anywhere. Overall an excellent game! But your mileage may vary.

[Frunk]

There's two different issues here. One is that traveling takes time. This isn't why I'm posting.

Second which is what the original poster was referring to I believe is the game is downright sluggish on older graphic cards.

The second is really the important reason. For comparison, walking around the coast at the bottom map on the demo is at a reasonable speed. However when you walk around anywhere there are lots of trees. The game slows to a crawl. It literally goes 1/3 the speed as in the open marshland.

This can easily be relieved as the game is not all that graphically complex. Simple catching of the trees would speed the game up a lot for those of us with older computers. But as it is now, the game is unplayable in the forests where there are a ton of objects on the screen.

Hopefully the author will fix this in 1.05, it's really a deal breaker.

[Krafen]

Debates over the movement speed can be confusing due to the graphic slowdown some people experience. I never experienced any slowdown, so the movement speed was not bad. Walking speed is somewhat slow, but unless I have to retrace my steps a few times, it is not bad. The quick travel and portal spell address most of the retracing, although a few more quick travel spots would probably be good.

If the game slowed down to half speed in towns, I would certainly find it frustrating. In giving feedback, I think we need to be very clear about exactly what it is we are having difficulty with.