RPGs that influenced me the most...

[Rune_74]

One thing you have to remember about old dos games, memory and reality are to different things. There were gaping holes in older games just like there are in newer games. People just don't remember the problems when thinking back.

[Randomizer]

That's because people had low expectations back then. Primitive graphics were state of the art on systems where 16kB RAM memory was normal and you had to swap diskettes between program and stored games when you weren't using cassette tape storage. You used your imagination to fill in the gaps and the computer was there to feed information and keep track of the numbers for you.

[BasiliskWrangler]

Not that I have a lot of free time, but in the few minutes here and there that I can relax I've been replaying World of Xeen recently (for those who don't know, that is "Might & Magic IV: Clouds of Xeen" combined with "Might & Magic V: Dark Side of Xeen" to make one giant game called "World of Xeen").

Now then, talk about a game that would get no love from today's RPGers if it were released present day! I still enjoy it for many reasons (mostly nostalgic), but I could just imagine how reviewers would bemoan its endless level grinding and complete lack of interactive dialog system if this were a 2009 game. And yet I feel sorry for anyone who can't set aside silly presumptions of "what an RPG should be" and look past the primitive graphics to see the game for what it is- a huge adventure spanning two massive worlds, great puzzles, enchanting FM synth music, and a very detailed (if imperfect) stat system.

I hope that later, when I'm not so busy with Book II (perhaps during beta testing when I am awaiting bug reports) I can write up a full retrospective on World of Xeen (like what Saxon1974 did with Ultima 4) complete with pictures of my journey.

[CrazyBernie]

Heh, try playing Demise: Rise of the Ku'Tan... it's a dungeon crawler released in 1995. It supports hardware accelerated graphics, online play, parties with up to eight memebers (I think... I know at least 4), nine races, twelve classes, multi-classing, yada yada. The dungeon has 200 levels to make your way through, and your character has 999 levels to progress... I think the furthest I ever made was level 10 or so.

Problem is, the interface is atrocious. The game is about 90% reliant on keyboard commands... there's no "fight" button to click on, you have to press "f", you have to press "shift-t" if you want to talk to someone in the dungeon, or "F6" to look around. If your character dies and you have no one else to carry him out of the dungeon, you can "wait for rescue" which could take days, months, or years off your character's life, and resurrection always has the chance of "complications." You can get lost if you step on a teleporter, and if you're lucky you might recognize where you are. There is no savegame function... so if you die, there's no reloading. Healing through resting ages your characters, and the older they get, the higher the chance of dying from natural causes.

Still, it's an entertaining little romp. While difficult to pick up, it's easy to put down. When you come back, the game just picks up wherever you left off. There's a group that created a freeware expansion, but stopped working on it when some shmuck bought the IP from Pharaoh Productions and tried to steal their work to claim it as his own so that he might sell it. This guy is loony... he want's you to pay $34.95 for the boxed version of a game that was released 14 years ago, $24.95 for the download version, and $9.95 for the manual! Hell, he even has a demo CD you can order for $4.95... Supposedly he's releasing "his own" expansion for the game... but there hasn't been any updates since before Christmas. At least you can still download the freeware expansion.


Here's a screenie:

[Palog]

About old memory of old games I disagree. There's clearly a barrier of graphics and sounds and many players won't be able to go over this.
But some people are able to play ASCII games even nowadays.

Myself I replayed not far ago a large part of Ultima Underworld and Dungeon Master, and that's big games no doubt and despite the totally ugly graphics. For games like U7 or Albion as soon as you don't try to use a fullscreen the graphics are ok. For U7 there's a problem of fluidity you cannot solve without to fall into a problem of a too high speed but after some time you get over this problem.

But on many points the gameplay can be amazing. For Dungeon Master it's just dungeon crawling but the mood, the fights and the exploration is excellent and the puzzles amazing. For Ultima Underworld the area/level 3D design is far above all modern CRPG, the story is average but the dialog writing is excellent as are the puzzles design. And merging of action, exploration and NPC dialogs is exemplary. The fights control are very difficult and it's impossibile to feel comfortable but if you accept the difficulty they have an interesting depth that few modern action CRPG succeed to reach.

I agree you couldn't release those games as this but they have some gameplay quality you'll hardly find in any modern CRPG.

[Randomizer]

Heh, try playing Demise: Rise of the Ku'Tan... it's a dungeon crawler released in 1995. It supports hardware accelerated graphics, online play, parties with up to eight memebers (I think... I know at least 4), nine races, twelve classes, multi-classing, yada yada. The dungeon has 200 levels to make your way through, and your character has 999 levels to progress... I think the furthest I ever made was level 10 or so.

Problem is, the interface is atrocious.

I've player the computer version Mordor since I don't have time to spend hours online grinding up a character and hooking up with a party to really get ahead. The interface looks better than the vector line version of the PC version and the older Avatar MUD on PLATO. It just takes getting used to and is really slow when you are a spellcaster trying to find that one really damaging spell that isn't in a hotkey slot.

[ExMORTIUS]

Intellivision:
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons: Treasure of Tarmin *

Nintendo Entertainment System:
Dragon Warrior
Final Fantasy I
Swords and Serpents *

PC:
Eye of the Beholder *
Lands of Lore *
Stonekeep *
Might and Magic 6-8 *
Eschalon
Dungeon lords
Dungeon Master
Dragon Quest
Ultima 2 - 6
Baldur's Gate
Daggerfall
Wizardry
Bard's Tale
Temple of Elemental Evil
Diablo
Oblivion
Icewind Dale

PSP:
Dungeon Siege: Throne of Agony
Untold Legends 2: The Warrior's Code
Untold Legends: Brotherhood of the Blade
Puzzle Quest: Challenge of the Warlords
DOS BOX for PSP
Intellivision emulator psp
NES emulator psp

* Are My Favorite and the ones that influenced me the most.
I remember, playing those games for months, even skipping school to play them.

[Evnissyen]

Hmm... BW: Do you know if there's a Mac version out for World of Xeen? I do have the DOS version, haven't gotten into it yet.

The Mac versions of those old DOS games have always had better sound and graphics than the DOS versions. Compare the soundtrack of the Faerytale adventure between the DOS version and the later Mac version. I loved that soundtrack, but when I tried the PC version it wasn't nearly the same. Oh well, still looking for a new copy of that Mac version. (My original copy got corrupted, somehow.)

[Reinhart]

Hmm, RPGs that most influenced me...

Well, starting in chronological order (of when I played them) from first to latest:
AD&D Pool of Radiance (NES) -- played this one before I could read, played it again multiple times throughout my life.
Shining Force 1 & 2 (Genesis)
Phantasy Star IV (Genesis)
(One of the) Ultima Series (PC)
Baldur's Gate (PC)
Suikoden I, II, III and V. (Playstation - Playstation 2)
Arcanum (PC)
Paper and Pencil RPGs.
Fallout 3 (Xbox 360)
Fallout 2 (PC)

No "modern" RPGs really float my boat, actually, they all pretty much disappoint me, the only exception is Fallout 3. I'm tempted to put Final Fantasy 7 on here only because I enjoyed it so much when I was younger but I can't stand it now, nor any other Final Fantasy.

[WorldFamous]

I've come to realize that every person has tastes far more specific than we usually give them credit for. An example is found in nostalgia. I can safely assume that all peole that are here like RPGs but the reasons why each of us liked them are so different that it's very interesting to see them together like this. My earliest experience with RPGs was Ultima 4. Played it, loved it. Moved on to 5 through 8 then back from 3 through 1. I played a lot of Ultima Online, perhaps too much of it. It's still at the very top, in my mind, as to what true freedom in a game really means. The crafting, house management and harvesting are a game of it's own. I still install it, from time to time, and try to find one of those free shards to feed my nostalgia a little bit, but I never spend too much time with it. I tried WoW, got horrbly, horribly bored after a few days and was very thankful I haven't bought it.

I skipped most other RPGs, out of a lack of publicity where I lived and the fact that when I did eventually get access to the internet it was a commodity, to be used for OU and the coveted E-mail and nothing else as it was so damn expensive. Anyway... Nox happened upon me and I loved it too. After so much time with Ultima's "so 'easy' it makes me want to chew my own fingers off" combat and macig system I was very happy with the change in pace. At the time I thought it felt like mixing an RPG with an FPS, especially during boss fights where you were required to strafe and avoid attacks on your own. Looking back I think that's what propelled me to go try Diablo and, eventually, Diablo 2. I like the Diablo games a lot, because, sometimes, I just want to kill stuff and collect loot, nothing else.

Fallout 1 and 2 own many hours of my life. The writing, especially, was what kept me coming back. Then came Morrowind, oh Morrowind. I remember starting the game up for the first time and being blown away by the graphics. Graphics that were light years behind "Better Bodies", "Better Trees", "Better Water", "Infinite Draw Distance" and all that good stuff. I was more amazed to find that the story was solid, the game felt right and was well planned. I think that Morrowind is my favourite game of all time, I still occasionally play it. I played Daggerfall much later but couldn't get into it, hell just getting the thing to run was a quest in of itself.

I liked Oblivion. It was good, not great. With about 2 mods per person living in china it becomes great, but it is not a merit to the developers, it's a merit that goes to the fans that worked very hard to de-stupidfy Oblivion. Oblivion represents the worst of what happened to RPGs over the years: to increase the fanbase they were made "accessible". It used to be extremely dificult to begin a stealth based ranger. The beginning of morrowind with marksmanship was horribly difficult, but in the end you were rewarded, if persistent and skillful. In oblivion it's a joke to beat the game with any character for whatever reason. Potions fall fromt he sky, your mana regenerates like there's no tomorrow, why they even bothered leaving the fatigue meter I shall never know, it regenerates too fast and makes so little a difference that it's pointless.

While I do, occasionally, feel like killing and looting no game can survive on that alone, at least, not for long. Morrowind had a balance, there were plenty of things to kill, but also plenty of quests that were completed without leaving a city, or without ever having the need for combat. And you were always aware that the outcome of the next battle depended upon carefully managing your charachter's skills with the equipment and items you've bought or found.

Anyway, that's what I think. I lost my train of thought a little there but I felt like elaborating a little bit more on what exactly influenced my view of RPGs.

[Iane]

Still, it's an entertaining little romp. While difficult to pick up, it's easy to put down. When you come back, the game just picks up wherever you left off. There's a group that created a freeware expansion, but stopped working on it when some shmuck bought the IP from Pharaoh Productions and tried to steal their work to claim it as his own so that he might sell it. This guy is loony... he want's you to pay $34.95 for the boxed version of a game that was released 14 years ago, $24.95 for the download version, and $9.95 for the manual! Hell, he even has a demo CD you can order for $4.95... Supposedly he's releasing "his own" expansion for the game... but there hasn't been any updates since before Christmas. At least you can still download the freeware expansion.


Here's a screenie:

For it's time I really enjoy Demise and yes it can be a little hard to get into but I don't understand your attack on Decklin - yes the guy purchased the IP for the game and others besides and I'm glad he did and $24.95 is not bad since Jeff over at spiderweb is still sellin Nethergate at $30 for the download and as far as I know the expansion has always been free.

Is that an ingame screenie of you playing the demo lol Sexyhealer

[CrazyBernie]

For it's time I really enjoy Demise and yes it can be a little hard to get into but I don't understand your attack on Decklin - yes the guy purchased the IP for the game and others besides and I'm glad he did and $24.95 is not bad since Jeff over at spiderweb is still sellin Nethergate at $30 for the download and as far as I know the expansion has always been free.

Here's a quote from DTR-Dojo's website:

DTR being official or not, it is still after all these years the only expansion for DEMISE. It stopped being official years ago after DEMISE rights owner wanted to claim it as his own and market it to boost sales. I didn't let it happen, because he and his "team" had nothing to do with its creation. Of course, the idea of Ascension would never exists without DTR.

Having said that, the current trend by the new "official" DEMISE team is to kill DTR using whatever means necessary, banning from master servers, censoring DTR on the forums, posting false information about DTR and similar. To sum it up: if it brings profit, embrace it, if it doesn't, kill it.

The $25 bucks is absolutely bad, and I didn't see Nethergate for $30, but I noticed that they charge at least $25 per game no matter how old it is. To their credit, at least they're offering trilogies for $45. It's one thing to offer a 10+ year old game for five or ten dollars, but 20+ is just getting out of control. I realize some people are willing to pay that price for the nostalgic value, but at some point you need to lower the cost if you still care about selling a meaningful number of copies. Just ask Valve about the effect of a price drop...

I'm not trying to single anyone out that does that either... hell, id software still sells DooM on their website for $20. Of course, Doom is a bit more of an iconic classic, so I'm sure they use that to justify the price.

Is that an ingame screenie of you playing the demo lol Sexyhealer

That is me playing the full version. I found it in an old shoe box my parents still had with a couple spindles of software and backup CD's from my high-school/college years. I made my dad buy me the game when I was sixteen after playing the demo for like 24 hours straight. O.o When I found this in the stack I had to load it up. I patched it and added the DTR expansion so I could get the resolution enhancements. I can't say that I still have the same capacity to play it for hours on end, but as I said, it's easy enough to play in installments.

And yes, my characters often have stupid names when I'm feeling too impatient to come up with something nice... ^_^

[Evnissyen]

The $25 bucks is absolutely bad, and I didn't see Nethergate for $30, but I noticed that they charge at least $25 per game no matter how old it is. To their credit, at least they're offering trilogies for $45. It's one thing to offer a 10+ year old game for five or ten dollars, but 20+ is just getting out of control. I realize some people are willing to pay that price for the nostalgic value, but at some point you need to lower the cost if you still care about selling a meaningful number of copies. Just ask Valve about the effect of a price drop...

Well... while I agree in the specific area of Nethergate (despite the work he put into 'updating the interface'), I'm sure it all comes down to what you have to do to stay viable as a small indie developer. And... for many consumers, price translates to quality. If it's only $10 or $15 it's gotta be crap, especially if the demo shows you a game with very primitive graphics (despite that the story is rather more fleshed out than the typical game). In the same vein, a lower price can suggest to a less-tolerant person that you're absolutely right that those primitive graphics mean it's a terrible game worth only $10. But if an indie game is $30 or even more (Spidweb's are $28 now I think)... then there's gotta be reason for it, right? It's psychology, man!

In my opinion... Jeff should've updated the graphics & animation in Nethergate as well, in order to justify the normal pricing and the repackaging. That was disappointing, to me.

[renkin]

I was really a NES player as a boy, so the first CRPG I played was probably Ultima VII. I played it at a friend's place, and the exploration of an open and interactive world really amazed me.

Around that time I got Shadowrun for SNES, which is like an adventure game with RPG elements. I think that was the first "RPG" that I actually played to the end.

However, what really made me consciously play RPGs was Fallout. I actually saw the box in a store and the screenshots reminded me of Shadowrun, which I had fond memories of, so I bought it, and I was hooked.

After that, I've played quite few RPGs, both old and new. To summarize, I would say these are the ones that blew my mind (in no particular order):

Ultima VII (PC)
Shadowrun (SNES) - Nostalgic value, but it's still a really good game, in my opinion. Atmosphere is great. I still play it.
Fallout (PC) - ...and Fallout 2 was great, too. Bigger, but maybe not as consistent in setting and story.
Final Fantasy VIII (Playstation) - Yes, 8. I know many people dislike it. I love it.
Planescape: Torment (PC)
Chrono Trigger (SNES)
Arcanum (PC)

I've enjoyed a lot more than that, but those probably meant the most to me. Maybe I forgot one or two.

[Iane]

Bardstale (Amiga 500) the game then cost me $125 when I was in New Zealand at the time and I think I spent some 6 to 9 months or more on the game .. time just sorta stood still then played rpg's on the Amiga till getting a PC in mid 90's also loved Hack on the Amiga I think it is now known as NetHack.

http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/mm5/me ... lder_Games

If he sells it for 30$ then more power to him it probably had the shit pirated out of it anyways at that time.

And Decklin gave me a chance to catch some games I missed out on at the time .. like Demise - Mordor and Devil Whiskey box sets