Build-a-Rogue

[Rumor]

Without a doubt my favorite class to play is the Rogue class. I have not run one in Eschalon as yet wanting to get a feel for the game and the mechanics of how things work. Now it is time to build a Rogue and go hide in the dark. So I am soliciting the input of those of you who have spent a deal of time skulking about as to what is important and what can be, um . . . appropriated along the way.
Stats: I'm thinking dexterity is my main focus. Since I won't be backstabbing I'd like to avoid toe-to-toe combat, so I am thinking of wielding a bow as my main weapon. I know that complicates the build a bit and makes concentration another skill to max. But if I can shoot from the shadows, all the better.
So I am thinking something like this:
STR: whatever I roll
DEX: 14 +10
END: whatever I roll (12 would be nice)
SPD: 14
INT: whatever I roll, but higher the better
WIS: whatever I roll
PER: whatever I roll, but I'd like 12 or better
CON: 14 +5

Thought on stats?

Next is skills:
Do I want alchemy so I can make potions for Pred Sight and Cat's Eyes? Or am i better served buying them?
Armor, Light for the many bonuses?
Dodge sounds like something I'll need to do a lot of if I am going to be borrowing things from their former owners.
Hide in Shadows is certainly going to be needed
Mercantile sounds good, but is it worth the expense over time?
Pick Locks . . . duh.
Skullduggery is pretty much a given
Spot Hidden sounds like a must too
Weapons, Bows is one I plan to take and drop a point into with every level-up.

So I am thinking:
Pick Locks
*Hide in Shadows
*Weapons, Bows
Dodge
Armor Light
Skullduggery

The two * ones I plan to bump each level. I'm sure I'll need to boost lock picking to a certain level and it probably wouldn't hurt to boost dodge. The best way to avoid getting hurt is to not get hit.

So, do you have suggestions on building a rogue? I want to use bows from shadows with predator's sight. I'd like to use cat's eyes to stay hidden. Should I buy potions or learn Alchemy?

I'll probably roll this rogue up over the weekend, so your input will be very useful. Help me build-a-rogueâ„¢!

[Krafen]

It looks like you are planning to go without magic. That will be very challenging, but challenge is not necessarily a bad thing.

Without a mage's perception, you will definitely need Spot Hidden.

From the experiences people have posted on the forum, you don't need much Hide in Shadows to be effective.

It only takes two points to max Alchemy, so I would definitely get it, you will want the ability to enhance, anyway.

I am a bit skeptical of Dodge, it seems like it takes too many points to be effective.

[RudeDog]

Hmm, interesting. I too like rogue characters - stealthy and deadly. I'm not sure though that this is a good game for that. You almost have to do all your exploring of new areas in the dark. Cats eye would be necessary and I'm not real impressed with the effectiveness of it. I'm afraid of missing a remote chest or barrel. Also, don't forget Move Silently as a skill.

I see magic as being a necessity. Either potions or spells for Cats Eye and Predator Sight. Then there's Divine Heal, Bless, and Leatherskin/Stoneskin which I found most helpful. It seems the game was designed for a pretty well-rounded type of character, with an opportunity to "flavor" your character towards one of the classic RPG type classes.

You'll also want to be aware that to actually "hide in shadows" you'll need to find a shadow - which can be hard to do in some places like the desert or wide open grassy plains. OTOH, using a bow as a main weapon should work well. I really like LARGE swords, but found myself using bows more and more. Especially when I ran into the Acid Slugs - I did not like having my equipment ruined in hand-to-hand combat with them.

Just my $.02 Good Luck.

[Maelstrom]

From the experiences people have posted on the forum, you don't need much Hide in Shadows to be effective.

It only takes two points to max Alchemy, so I would definitely get it, you will want the ability to enhance, anyway.

Actually great benefit is gotten from the predator sight spell without Hide in Shadows, but 1 rank of Hide in Shadows is a powerful addition.

Be sure to get maximum training in Alchemy before you invest skill points. A couple of rings and a book will get you 15 ranks of Alchemy from only 2 skill points.

The book is fairly common to find but the rings might need to be purchased and are kinda pricey.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

A bow-wielding Rogue is my favorite character type. You'll probably want to get Elemental magic so you can learn the Predator Sight spell, as I have been unable to figure out how to brew the potion (I think I've tried every possible combination with an alchemy skill of 15). Elemental also lets you learn my second-favorite combat spell, Air Shield. It's great for the assaults on Vela and the Citadel. Completely negates those pesky Goblin Archers.

You can actually do without Cats Eyes (though they're cheap to buy or brew) with a little skill in Cartography, but I LOVE Predator Sight with Hide In Shadows. You do fine in the deserts and grasslands at night.

The most important stats, I think, for this type of character are Dexterity, Speed, and Concentration. Perception is good for improving your ability to Pick Locks and Disable Traps. Also, a decent Strength helps with your ability to carry a LOT of arrows, as you're going to burn through them. Personally, I'd avoid the Steel arrows, as I don't think the +1 damage makes up for them being twice the weight of any other arrow.

[Thoht]

Any progress on your builds?

I rolled a rogue myself, went with swords as starting skill (5), saved all my skill points after that. Maxed out dexterity and concentration, leaving concentration at 20 later and pushing dexterity higher and higher. I was patient and waited until I got to the trainer locations before I picked up archery, elemental magic and divine magic as my main skills. Archery has been the primary skill, and I haven't spent a point in any other than that one past the character creation.

I haven't found out how concentration works really, so far dexterity seems to be just as good on it's own really.

The truly beneficial thing about this rogue is that you gain experience points from lockpicking (I don't think you should raise it either, that'd lower the experience gain - it's a money sink burning through lockpicks, but earning money's hardly an issue in this game). Just put 1-5 points into a random melee skill and be patient. Once you get to Bordertown, train the five levels of archery, and away you go. Eventually you'll find the skill book as well.

Once I got to Blackwater I trained my elemental and divine magic skills up just like archery, and found one of the books only moments after that - still looking for elemental.

Having a myriad of buffs is really nice. I had found a bunch of spells before I went on my way to Vela; Bless, Air Shield, Predator Sight and Enkindled Weapon. I also found Chameleon during the quest.

I don't really have anything to compare to since this is a reroll of my first character (a melee rogue, boring), but with 98 % chance to hit - at all times - and at level 11 dealing damage around 30-36 per hit (with some sweet crits ever so often - would make an ace combo with the Nefarious axiom - this is as solid as it gets in my eyes. I wouldn't say it's overpowered though, since it can be tough keeping all the buffs up during combat. It's quite the costly way too, arrows ain't for free. :/

Anyone who's been number crunching concentration who could elaborate its purpose in detail?

[Turtle]

Don't waste your precious skill points on Dodge. You won't need it, because if no-one can see youe, no-one can hit you.
It's worth starting with several points in Hide in Shadows, building to 5 or 6--at which point you can hide right out in the open, as long as it's dark.
Mercantile is not worth it. There's a book, anyway.
For my money, Predator Sight is far superior to Cat's Eyes. You only need to buy one level of Elemental in Blackwater to cast it, and you can use potions until you get there. You can always fire up a torch to search for loot after everything is dead.
Alchemy: why not? But wait and buy it in Bordertown. My rogue invested in thrown weapons rather than bows, and made good use of demon oil. Demon oil, by the way, has the added benefit of lighting up your target(s), making it (them) easier to hit with your regular missiles. And you don't really need to put any points into thrown weapons to use it tactically. You will find that you don't need many potions with this build, as long as you're careful not to get caught in daylight, but making demon oil is a worthwhile exercise.
I agree that there's no point investing heavily in Lockpicking. Just keep trying.
Personally, I'd put a point or two in Move Silently. I've never really built this very high though, so I don't know if it has a major effect.
As for Stats, Dexterity seems to be the way to go for both of your specialties.

[Thoht]

Have you tried out Haste? It seems awkward having to choose between the two schools, so I figured I'd go ahead and try meeting the minimum requirement (15) to cast that spell.

[Randomizer]

The only gripe I have with this class is that you gain the most experience with the minimum lock picking and skullduggery if you are willing to reload until you get it. Having a normal amount in each allows you to open them or avoid damage, but you could easily do the same with other means.

Perception probably is more cost effective than spot hidden in terms of allocating skill points versus stat points.