Newbie starting Eschalon - please help out

[waryk]

I'm trying out the game and exploring Elderhollow. I thought I'd try to explore the game on my own and rolled a fighter, but became frustrated once I started running into numerous traps and locks. I've done a little bit of reading and just wanted to clear up a few questions before taking another stab at the game tomorrow night.

• How difficult is it to acquire lockpicks in the beginning? I've visited Aridell, but no one was selling any and hacking things apart with my sword is both risky and carpal-tunnel inducing. I think someone mentioned "save farming merchants", so if I save before speaking to a merchant for the first time and then reload, will he have a whole new inventory? Do Merchants even sell lockpicks? Are all non-Rogue classes SOL in the early game when it comes to locked containers?
• Is it possible to do the Sextant quest very early so I can avoid using 3 skill points to get Cartography at character creation?
• What are the skill and stat caps? I know NPC trainers will only teach you a skill up to level 5 and that books of a skill add +2 levels to a skill you already have, but what's the max? Does each level only cost 1 skill point regardless of how high it is? Can you find multiple skill books for one skill?
• From what I heard a Fighter who can self-buff is one of the preferred builds. Does anyone recommend starting as a fighter and branching out into Divinity magick or starting as a Healer and switching to more sword combat?
• Is Dodge really as worthless as it sounds? The "1% dodge per skill level" means I'll have to pound a lot of points into it before I can get any reliable returns.
• What are the suggested starting skills? I'd like to end up with a character similar to this. I'm thinking Spotting to see traps (and more treasure?) along with Skuldruggery and Pick Locks to get more EXP are important. Also purchase Light Armor Proficiency and one way of killing which is pretty much a weapon proficiency. How quickly can I get Divine magics for low-level buffs? Either way, that's 12-15 skill points spent on new skills, wit the remaining most likely boosting Spotting, Skuldruggery and Pick Locks to let me get at those delicious lewts.

Thoughts and sugestions much appreciated. I'll do battle with the character creator (for some reason it fails to recognize Ctrl+Click as right-click on Macs. Also it prevented me from removing any points in Sword Skill after I got it to level 6 [chose fighter] and then began switching classes) tomorrow.

[Randomizer]

How difficult is it to acquire lockpicks in the beginning? I've visited Aridell, but no one was selling any and hacking things apart with my sword is both risky and carpal-tunnel inducing. I think someone mentioned "save farming merchants", so if I save before speaking to a merchant for the first time and then reload, will he have a whole new inventory? Do Merchants even sell lockpicks? Are all non-Rogue classes SOL in the early game when it comes to locked containers?

Lockpicks are sold by Porter the Innkeeper. Try innkeepers in each town.
All merchants restock about once a game week. They have a fixed inventory and then the bottom items change.
Save farming refers to the items in containers since most are randomly generated each time you open them. So save before opening or smashing open.

Is it possible to do the Sextant quest very early so I can avoid using 3 skill points to get Cartography at character creation?

This quest is a little hard for a beginning character, but if you are careful and retreat as soon as you attract the attention of a single thug, then you can pick them off one at a time and heal up in between fights.

What are the skill and stat caps? I know NPC trainers will only teach you a skill up to level 5 and that books of a skill add +2 levels to a skill you already have, but what's the max? Does each level only cost 1 skill point regardless of how high it is? Can you find multiple skill books for one skill?

Only one book will work for each skill. Other copies of the same book do nothing. Most skills have diminishing returns in that more does really do as much as a percentage of how much you have. Cartography over 5 is best done with items. alchemy can be improved with items so you don't need more than 9, ....

From what I heard a Fighter who can self-buff is one of the preferred builds. Does anyone recommend starting as a fighter and branching out into Divinity magick or starting as a Healer and switching to more sword combat?

You can train in elemental magic and divination in Blackwater so you can wait until later to gain spells. Or start as a spellcaster and get weapon training later on in the game. You don't really need to buff to do well and alchemy can do the same as most spells.

Is Dodge really as worthless as it sounds? The "1% dodge per skill level" means I'll have to pound a lot of points into it before I can get any reliable returns.

Dodge at 10% (12 skill points) does provide a decent advantage in combat. It will be better in Book 2.

What are the suggested starting skills? I'd like to end up with a character similar to this. I'm thinking Spotting to see traps (and more treasure?) along with Skuldruggery and Pick Locks to get more EXP are important. Also purchase Light Armor Proficiency and one way of killing which is pretty much a weapon proficiency. How quickly can I get Divine magics for low-level buffs? Either way, that's 12-15 skill points spent on new skills, wit the remaining most likely boosting Spotting, Skuldruggery and Pick Locks to let me get at those delicious lewts.

Spot hidden can be done with an item (Ring of the Hawk).
Books are the easiest way to train since there is one for everything but Shields and Unarmed Combat for fighting skills, and Lore.

There are gloves to help with skulldruggery and picklocks.

You can always bash open containers, but don't waste your sword. Use a bludgeoning or cleaving weapon.

[waryk]

Thanks for the reply Randomizer, I thought these forums were dead!

Actually, a question about Cartography - at what level does the skill stop adding new features to the map? And if I map an area with a high Cartography skill boosted by items and then return without those items, will I still see the superior map?

In respect to sills in general, what would you suggest I cap my armor or weapon specialization skills at? How many points is 'enough'?

Also, if I choose to add a new skill during level-up (I assume I have that option), will I pay 3 skill points or 1? If all skill levels after 1 cost only 1 skill point then a book is better used to get a new skill instead of just adding two levels.

I was reading the forums a bit, and is it true that Spot Hidden will reveal more containers for you to loot (like skeletons)?

Thanks for your help! Just trying to make sure my character doesn't suck at the end

[Dragonlady]

Thanks for the reply Randomizer, I thought these forums were dead!

Actually, a question about Cartography - at what level does the skill stop adding new features to the map? And if I map an area with a high Cartography skill boosted by items and then return without those items, will I still see the superior map?

I believe 15 is all you need and some of that can be gotten from items found/bought

Also, if I choose to add a new skill during level-up (I assume I have that option), will I pay 3 skill points or 1? If all skill levels after 1 cost only 1 skill point then a book is better used to get a new skill instead of just adding two levels.

If you already have a skill, at level up you can add 1, 2 or 3. It's best to spread them around to those you really want first. A book is good for getting a skill and not having to spend the 3 at level up to get a skill of 1 in something.

I was reading the forums a bit, and is it true that Spot Hidden will reveal more containers for you to loot (like skeletons)?

Not that I recall. It does help you find hidden items in walls and rocks and most especially finding hidden traps!


a lot of your questions can be answered by reading the 'unoffical FAQ' and 'Known Issues' subjects at the top of this forum subject.

[waryk]

Due respect, but I gave reading the two threads you mentioned a shot and both failed to dwell on the technical details that I'm trying to find out. Item lists or Spell lists or quest help are nice, but I'm after mechanics.

BTW, what do you mean in respect to finding items in "walls and rocks"? As in, finding hidden compartments that have loot or just traps?

I think the character I'll roll for my new attempt will start as a Fighter with the following skills:

Swords 2
Light Armor 1
Spot Hidden 2
Skuldruggery 3
Lockpicking 2
Diviniation 1

Thoughts appreciated.

[Randomizer]

You could hold off on Spot Hidden until you get a book (try merchants in Bordertown as a likely place) if your perception is over 10 on the initial roll. Just stop and hit space bar a few times to check for traps on chests and in the dank cellar. There is usually blood spots or a corpse near a trap.

Getting a weapon skill to 10 quickly is important for a fighter. Next is armor skill because it gives you a chance at reduced damage.

The chance of disarming most traps is small at the start and the experience decreases with increased skill. Same with lock picking when just bashing the door or container with a cheap weapon works as well. You lose a little experience, but you can camp out in the open to lure monsters for experience if you need it.

Now what's really helpful is Hide in Shadows which is completely broken. With Predator's Sight spell you can run around in the dark and hit them while they have a harder time hitting you. It doesn't take more than 5 levels to be able to hide and by 10 you are almost invisible in the dark.

[VPeric]

Swords 2
Light Armor 1
Spot Hidden 2
Skuldruggery 3
Lockpicking 2
Diviniation 1

Consider this: buying the first skill level costs only 100gp, while training it will cost a whole three skill points. Same applies for a book - it's most helpful when you use it to learn a skill, as that'll save you three skill points. So, I'd probably ditch Divination and probably one of the other skills too and wait a while to train/read 'em.

If you ask me, I'd just got for a maxed armor and weapons skill at start, with whatever for a third skill. Note also that it's possible not to use up all your SP at character creation, in which case you'll be able to use 'em at your first levelup.

[BasiliskWrangler]

Thanks for the reply Randomizer, I thought these forums were dead!

Heavy traffic tends to come in waves as news bits are posted, but we have a core group of fans that poke in here almost daily.

[Evnissyen]

Hmm... this is from memory so forgive (and correct) me if I forget something.

* Sufficient cartography skill (4 or 5, difference being water) is vital if you want a map that will inform you. Maybe invest 3 if you want the extra point to build up your other skills.
* Spot hidden is quite important, even in the beginning.
* Pick locks is vital, although maybe not level 1 . . . skullduggery can wait. Also, remember: some locked doors can be opened in other ways, you don't always need to pick the lock. But it helps in some places.
* Light armor is vital. Don't invest in shields at first unless you're experienced and know what you want to do.
* Yes, it's good to invest as many points as you can spare, in the beginning, into whatever weapon you use. (If you're strictly a magic user (good luck as a novice!) then both divinity & elemental; certain player-type choices will give you either of these for free. I think 3 points in either will give you level 2 spells? Someone verify this.)
* Archery is also very important. Consider a point in this in the beginning.

A good roll to place your points in the right places is also vital. Don't be afraid to re-roll 10, 20, 30 times until you get something that works. Purists might consider this cheating: I call it exploiting an unfair system to its best potential.

Oh, and as for bashing crates: There aren't enough of them, I don't feel, to matter too much. Don't bother investing in bludgeoning weapons at first if you don't plan on using this as your primary weapon.

[xolotl]

* Sufficient cartography skill (4 or 5, difference being water) is vital if you want a map that will inform you. Maybe invest 3 if you want the extra point to build up your other skills.

While I agree that having a level 4 or 5 cartography is real nice, you can certainly do with a much lower-numbered one. If it's your first playthrough you'll definitely want some cartography at least, but remember that there are multiple ways in the game to increase your cartography skill without actually spending valuable skill points on it. When I play nowadays I tend to leave it at skill level 1 and then level it up via other means later in the game.

* Archery is also very important. Consider a point in this in the beginning.

I'd amend this to read that ranged attacks of some sort are very important. If you're a magic user I wouldn't bother with archery; it's just too expensive to keep up with bows and spells, both from a monetary perspective and from skill point allocation. If you don't have any other ranged attack in your repertoire, of course, then bows would be a good skill to invest in. Note that you can increase your archery skill to 5 later in the game without ever paying a single skill point, though, so you can probably hold off for awhile if you want.

[Randomizer]

Ranged attacks are important throughout the game. It's just expensive to do it in the beginning when you aren't good at it. After you get it to 5 then it starts to pay off when you can weaken and/or kill things before they can get near you.

[waryk]

Finished reading through the entire player manual and failed to find any enlightening answers.


1) Is there a cap to the number of skills a player can know at the same time? I look at my character sheet and there's very little room down there!

2) Are there any caps for stats or skills?

3) What's the level cap, if there is one?

4) Spot Hidden refers to revealing "hidden objects". What hidden objects and where? Inside containers or revealing actual containers to loot?

5) What's the difference between Cat's Eyes and Predator's Sight? What's the difference between Predator's Sight and holding down TAB to bring up the "tactical grid" and thus highlight any enemies?

Regarding skills, I think I will go with level 6 Swords (start as Fighter), Pick Locks, and Disarm Traps (that's 11 skill points). I will probably also select Hide in Shadows so it's easier to pump up. Undecided about whether I should select Light Armor or Heavy Armor proficiencies at the start. I know that Heavy Armor is king at the end-game, but going long without armor or with armor penalties is unappealing.

tl;dr - For a fighter I guess it makes sense to start with:

Swords 6,
Heavy Armor 4,
Pick Locks 1,
Disarm Traps 1,
Hide in Shaodws 1.

Hopefully it'll be a while till I need ranged attacks to trigger switches and stuff.

[IJBall]

Finished reading through the entire player manual and failed to find any enlightening answers.

1) Is there a cap to the number of skills a player can know at the same time?

Nope!

2) Are there any caps for stats or skills?

No, though there is what I would call an "effective" cap for several of them.

For example, while you can keep putting points into Cartography, you get no additional benefit from the skill beyond Level 15 or 16 Cartography.

However, other skills, such as Weapons, Armor, Dodge, Survival, and even Mercantile, will continue to yield benefits with increased Levels, almost without limit.

3) What's the level cap, if there is one?

Level 20. Actually, technically it's really Level 21. But Book I was designed to not really go beyond Level 20.

4) Spot Hidden refers to revealing "hidden objects". What hidden objects and where? Inside containers or revealing actual containers to loot?

There are no "findable" treasure containers like chests, barrels, or even pits.

But you can "find" hidden treasure inside shelves, and building walls, and even cave walls.

5) What's the difference between Cat's Eyes and Predator's Sight? What's the difference between Predator's Sight and holding down TAB to bring up the "tactical grid" and thus highlight any enemies?

Try 'em and find out!

Basically, Cat's Eyes works more like a (weak) magical torch, faintly illuminating the area around your character. In terms of combat, I think fighting with Cat's Eyes is like fighting in slight light/partial darkness.

Predator Sight only lights up/illuminates living creatures (and NPCs? - I've never tried it!). In terms of combat, I think you can attack monsters with *no* penalty (for either melee or ranged attacks) when using Predator Sight.

Regarding skills, I think I will go with level 6 Swords (start as Fighter), Pick Locks, and Disarm Traps (that's 11 skill points). I will probably also select Hide in Shadows so it's easier to pump up. Undecided about whether I should select Light Armor or Heavy Armor proficiencies at the start.

I always start with Light Armor - it's just cheaper, so it's easier to get for starting characters!

You can add Heavy Armor by, say, Level 5 or so, and you'll still be good to go.

Also, you might want to consider starting with Dodge - it won't give you much with just Lvl. 1 in Dodge, but if you can get Dodge up to Level 15-20 or so, and it starts to pay off.

[Randomizer]

Edit - took to long to post.

1) Is there a cap to the number of skills a player can know at the same time? I look at my character sheet and there's very little room down there!

No limit. There are arrow keys to the right of the skill list to scroll up and down when you get more than you can see at one time.

2) Are there any caps for stats or skills?

No known caps, but Cartography and Alchemy don't give anything more over 20. Lore probably doesn't need more than 5 or 6 if you raise Intelligence or Lore with items.

3) What's the level cap, if there is one?

21 is the maximum levels you can get in the game. 16 to 17 is the highest you will likely get during game play.

4) Spot Hidden refers to revealing "hidden objects". What hidden objects and where? Inside containers or revealing actual containers to loot?

Parts of walls, shelves, and cave walls will light up when you spot hidden objects. Clicking on them then gives a special gray box container for fixed items. Things like gems, coins, and a few weapons and armor.

There is one in Elderhollow, lots in the Whistling Cave, and a few in Tangletree Ossuary.

5) What's the difference between Cat's Eyes and Predator's Sight? What's the difference between Predator's Sight and holding down TAB to bring up the "tactical grid" and thus highlight any enemies?

Cat's Eye is a like a torch without benefitting your enemies, but you may have a minus to hit. Predator's Sight lights up all creatures in glowing green so you can track and attack them in the dark even if you can't see because of no torch or cat's eyes spell. TAB is the cheat way to locate them and helps when blocked by a wall with the perspective.

Good luck with your game. It seems like a decent skill selection.

[xolotl]

I'll just add a couple more things to the general consensus here...

1) Is there a cap to the number of skills a player can know at the same time?

No limit.

Note, however, that overdiversification can really hinder you, especially in the beginning. Your proposed stats seem fine. On my first playthrough I made the mistake of getting too many too quickly, and I was suffering for it throughout the midgame (it didn't help that I was a magic user).

2) Are there any caps for stats or skills?

No known caps, but Cartography and Alchemy don't give anything more over 20.

Cartography especially I wouldn't bother beyond about 5, honestly. I think that Alchemy actually stops providing benefits above level 15, unless I'm mistaken...

What's the difference between Predator's Sight and holding down TAB to bring up the "tactical grid" and thus highlight any enemies?

The other folks' answers implied this, but stated more explicitly: using those spells will result in real in-game advantages in terms of your ToHit and the like, whereas using TAB just makes it easier for you (the player) to know where enemies are. To negate the bad effects of attacking in darkness, you'll want to have one of those two going.