How "Old School" is "Old School"?

[PKodon]

I've heard Basilisk Wrangler and others mention that they are "Old School" RPG gamers.

I'm wondering just how "Old School" we're talking about? In this thread, I'm asking the "Old School" people what they're talking about; as for the rest of you, just tell me what the Oldest "Old School" RPG youi've ever played is, even if you just downloaded it from an abandonware site and attempted to play it using DosBox. (As opposed to the other thread that asks what was the first RPG you played.)

Also, you might mention anything you liked/disliked in particular about the game. Perhaps you might also mention which RPG you liked the most (of the one's you've played), and which you liked the least.

As for the "Old Schoolers", when you say "Old School":

Are we talking Net Hack (hmm, is that even an RPG, or just a hack and slash dungeon crawler?), ZZT/SuperZZT/Megazeux, Kingdom of Kroz?

How about Realms of Arkania , The Bard's Tale, or many of the SSI offerings?

Planet's Edge? (I don't really know of any other comparable PC games.)

Arena or Daggerfall? Or how about Betrayal at Krondor or Betrayal in Antara?

Perhaps we're talking more about something like Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale or maybe Fallout?

Or is it Neverwinter Nightes, Darkstone or Dungeon Siege (does Diablo count as an RPG, I don't know, never played it).

I know it's not Deux Ex or Outcast (the one from Infogrames/Appeal, not the Star Wars one).

All of these could be considered "Classic" or "Old School" by someone. (And yes, I realize that some of these are not strictly RPG, but add in Adventure, Strategy, First Person Shooter or other elements.) And, by the way, I've played all of the above, and more that I don't recall, as well as a ton of Adventure games and some Adventure/FPS games (going all the way back to text adventures from Scott Adams, Crowther and Woods, and Infocom, Apogee and Epic Megagames' early offerings, the Tomb Raider series, Myst series, Journeyman Project series, Tex Murphy mysteries, Dark Side of the Moon, and a host of others I'd have to do some research to recall what they were). In a way, I consider at least some of the "Action/Adventure" games RPG, by dictionary use of the English words (as in, you are playing the role of some character, even if you aren't interacting with anyone or doing any fighting - and in my opinion, you don't have to have fighting to have a role playing game).

Come to think of it, which platform are we talking about? TRS-80 (pick a model), PC (JR/XT/AT), C=64/128, Amiga, Atari ST, Macintosh, Archimedes, or any of the other "PCs" that have died in relative obscurity? Perhaps your oldest "Old School" RPG was actually on "Big Iron" - a mainframe!

Or is it one of the "consoles": Amiga (CDTV/CD-32), NES/SNES, Atari, SEGA, PS1, Dreamcast, etc.?

I'm guessing "Old School RPG" around here means console RPGs like Star Ocean, Dragon Quest, Zelda, Chrono Trigger, etc. or the PC game Albion (though that had a curious mix of 3rd-person overhead 2-D and 1st-person 3-D).

In my opinion, games like The Bard's Tale and Realm's of Arkania series were even tougher than anything some people on here seem to complain about in Eschelon Book 1. At least in Eschelon, you can see the enemy coming, most of the time, and you don't get randomly attacked while you're trying to find your way around your first town

Anyway, I'm just curious, how "Old School" are you?

Well, this post is already too long, so I'll answer my own questions (again for some) in the next post, and turn the thread over to you guys.

PK

[CrazyBernie]

Personally, all of my RPG's have been on PC, NES, SNES, Xbox, and Xbox 360 (admittedly few here, since I currently don't have a 360).

To me, Old School encompasses a variety of games, mostly those that predate true 3d graphics.

For instance, the Final Fantasy Series on the NES/SNES, games 1-6.

On PC, stuff like the Gold Box series, or the Might and Magic games. The "newest" game I would consider to be in the old school class is probably Baldur's Gate. That's probably stretching it a bit though.

[PKodon]

Okay, well, the first "RPG" I ever played was probably also the oldest I ever played:

Either one of the Kroz series (Kingdom of Kroz, as I recall), or one of the ZZT games.

I know, these are text-based, but nobody said an RPG had to use graphics, all it need is you playing a role, and you can do that just as easily as a P as you can as some fancy 3-D walking corpse-to-be.

Well, that was the first one I can remember, and those were on a PC, I don't remember if there were any RPGs on the old TRS-80 Model I or NCR Decision Mate V, which were the first two computers I ever played games on (going all the way back to 1979 for the TRS-80 Model I).

Of all the RPGs I've ever played, I think my favorite ones are...

(PC): Deus Ex, Outcast, Betrayal at Krondor, Siege of Avalon, Dungeon Siege, Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights (Ahh, I miss my DRUPARC, the Destructs -R- Us Power Adventurer's Resource Center, a mod I built for importing a character, collecting some equipment (especially lots of bags/boxes/etc. of holding), custom armor, and a few other items, plus a hunting area to try things out in. The character could then be exported and imported into a new game, complete with custom equipment (and the equipment wasn't overboard, just more in tune with my character).

(Amiga) Don't remember, though I believe I had at least one.

{SNES) Star Ocean, Romancing SaGa 3, Breath of Fire

(X-Box) Fable (actually, the only RPG I've played on an X-Box)

Flops (in my opinion) I've tried to play:

Anne McAffrey's Freedom (and since it's fallen into relative obscurity, aparently others thought it a flop, too) - due to technical difficulties, the game just refused to play the audio for conversations, and eventually froze early in the game. A real pity, as the game looked like it had great potential, Anne's material deserved better than this.

Silver (again for technical problems that would cause the game to freeze).

Realms of Arkania and the original Bard's Tale trilogy (though I may try these again, I really don't appreciate getting killed before I even get enough money to buy a decent weapon or at least one piece of armor).

PK

[MyGameCompany]

"Old school" to me means turn-based, heavy stats, rolling physical dice, exploring dungeons drawn out on graph paper, playing by an official D&D rulebook, etc.

[BasiliskWrangler]

This is by no means a complete list as I spent maybe 10 minutes compiling it, but Old-School games to me are:

Ultima 1-5 - Certainly the series didn't really mature until #4, but for me the fun started at number #2. #6 and #7 both could very easily be included here, although engine enhancements really make 6 & 7 very different than the previous games. #4 is often considered the greatest cRPG ever made (Dragon Age: Origins be damned).

Might & Magic 3-5 - The Xeen trilogy. Again, there can be many good (and some bad) things said about the other games in the series, but the Xeen series is epic in scope and design. A bit on the humorous side, this is an RPG for those who love exploration and character micromanagement.

Dungeon Master - First played this on the Atari ST. To this day, Dungeon Master is still a must-play, wonderful RPG experience. I can include the Eye of the Beholder series here as well, since it is obvious Westwood directly mimicked Dungeon Master. Furthermore, we could add Bloodwych, The Black Crypt, and several others to this category.

Wizardry - I don't have much experience with the early games, but 6, 7 and 8 are most certainly influential RPGs. These tend to be favored by more hardcore RPGs fans. I admit I have never finished a Wizardry game.

The Elder Scrolls - Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind are all great RPGs. I will even throw in Oblivion because although it has a lot of flaws, it tries really hard and can be made into a decent game via mods.

There are numerous other RPGs that I think contributed to the Golden Age of role-playing- The Bards Tale, Phantasy III, Ultima Underworld, Realms of Arkania are just a few of the many that come to mind. Rogue and its kin are certainly recognized as well.

There are a number of contemporary RPGs (post Diablo) that are worth mentioning as they have a "near old-school" feel... as I already said, Morrowind and Oblivion are two decent examples, as are NeverWinter Nights, Baulder's Gate, Arx Fatalis, and Wizards & Warriors (the PC game by Heuristic Park, not the Nintento game).

[Kreador Freeaxe]

I think you're looking for CRPGs here, otherwise like MyGameCompany, I'd have to start with D&D, Heroes, Paranoia, Call of Cthulhu. Heck, we even threw a bit of roll playing into Car Wars (for anybody who remembers that early Steve Jackson game).

Yes, there were a couple CRPGs for the TRS-80 (we had a Model III). Text based, mostly, since the machine was not really equipped for graphics. I remember having to constantly change the tape on the one (don't remember the name off the top of my head, but it was an exploration of a Mayan temple).

I had actually, for the most part, been away from CRPGs and P&P RPGs for years until a friend of mine (I call him my RPG-Crack pusher) sent me a copy of the new Heroes of Might & Magic. After finishing that, I saw a mention of Eschalon Book 1 from Apple.

Now I'm a junky, but a very picky junky.

[MyGameCompany]

My earliest computer RPG was probably "Nine Princes in Amber" for the PC Jr.
http://www.mobygames.com/game/nine-princes-in-amber

Not sure if that really qualifies as a RPG by today's standards, but that's one of my earliest games. Along with King's Quest.

[dare49devil]

-I guess I am just young, because I consider 'old school' as Task Master..(which coincidentally is the first 'rpg' i played).

[Dragonlady]

Well, old school to me means playing D&D boxed set in 1978!
Computer wise, I think it was Telengard on our Commador 64 using a tape. After that it was Bards' Tale, Ultima's, Adventure (text type), Zork series, etc. (not in that order, just the way my memory popped them up! )

[Randomizer]

I remember Car Wars and really enjoyed min-maxing car designs. Steve Jackson's pre-GURPS games: Melee, Wizard, Advance Melee and Advance Wizard. Of course D&D (1st and 2nd editions), Space Opera, Traveller, Boot Hill, and other pen and paper RPGs.

Back on an Apple II+ I played Eamon and Ultima 2, and later on Windows systems it was Wizardry (back when there was only 1), Might and Magic 1 and 2, Ultima 1 (DOS 1.0), Bard's Tale, The Hobbit, and Hack (rogue game).

So I guess I qualify for Old School

[Luzur]

Old school = Pre 3D graphics games. (Telengard, Might and Magic, Bards Tale etc.)

New School = Post #D graphics games. (Oblivion, Mount and Blade, Demons Souls etc)

[dare49devil]

-I still play Heroes of Might and Magic III: Armageddon's Blade. It is so fun! =]

[CrazyBernie]

-I still play Heroes of Might and Magic III: Armageddon's Blade. It is so fun! =]

I won't disagree with it's entertainment value (as I recently re-purchased it through GOG.com), but it's technically a strategy game, not an RPG. ^_^

[realmzmaster]

I have fond memeories of Ultima: Escape from Mt. Drash on the Commodore Vic-20. Telengard on the Commodore 64. Alternate Reality (City and Dungeon) and the Ultimas 2-4 on the Atari 65XE. Dungeon Master and Sun Dog on the Atari St.

[Uruk]

Old School is probably determinant on your age. I remember playing all sorts of ASCII type "RPGs" like Moria, Angband, Rogue and ZZT. There was the odd Dungeons of Moraff that took advantage of my 1MB VGA card. There were tons of shareware games I played until I hit the end, I wish I could remember some of their names. Hero Quest (later Quest for Glory), Ultima 6 (which I didn't beat till much later), Ultima 7 (which I didn't beat until I used Exult due to bugs) were big for me in middle school. I don't think I beat the SSI D&D stuff until college. I remember beating Wasteland back in 6th grade. I just started Eschalon and I'm comparing it to Ultima 6 when describing it to friends.