Quest unfulfillable?

[realmzmaster]

If you sell the wedding ring of the husband (Brandon) of the stranded woman (Mary) ( sold the ring before I encountered Mary) will you be unable to complete this quest or can you go back to the shop and re-purchase the ring?

[nonameform]

I believe this will be fixed in next patch and you won't be able to sell quest items. In the meantime the only way to get it back is by editing a savefile.

[GSV3MiaC]

You MAY be able to repurchase things you sell to shops, but eventually there is an inventory turn over (thank goodness) and then all bets are off... Sort of depends how long it was since you sold it ..

[BasiliskWrangler]

It's funny- people request more and more realism in RPGs, and what you just described sounds very real to me: you find an object, sell it, and later regret getting rid of it.

I don't think any "storyline critical" objects can be sold or dropped, however minor quest objects can be. I think it kind of ruins something when every single quest object is clearly labeled as "special". You don't have that luxury in real life to know exactly if every object you come across may be needed for another purpose down the road. I like finding something unique and wondering "should I hang on to this?". Clearly an inscribed wedding ring would make me think to keep it for a while, or until I desperately needed the gold from selling it.

Thoughts?

[Loriac]

It's funny- people request more and more realism in RPGs, and what you just described sounds very real to me: you find an object, sell it, and later regret getting rid of it.

I don't think any "storyline critical" objects can be sold or dropped, however minor quest objects can be. I think it kind of ruins something when every single quest object is clearly labeled as "special". You don't have that luxury in real life to know exactly if every object you come across may be needed for another purpose down the road. I like finding something unique and wondering "should I hang on to this?". Clearly an inscribed wedding ring would make me think to keep it for a while, or until I desperately needed the gold from selling it.

Thoughts?

I agree with this philosophy, it should be the player's responsibility to mange this kind of thing. Personally, I would extend it to main quest items as well, but I guess people like to feel they're not destroying their chances to 'win' the game by doing something stupid.

However, if this is implemented in this way, I think its worthwhile to have the facility for permanent storage somewhere (maybe a bank or something). This is not so much an issue in Book 1 which is not a huge game, but as the size of the game increases you need somewhere to store stuff and reduce clutter. You could even make quests using the Bank (e.g. the Bank gets robbed, and you can try to track down the robbers to get your stuff back, either for a reward, or to steal other peoples' items for yourself )

[Josia]

It's funny- people request more and more realism in RPGs, and what you just described sounds very real to me: you find an object, sell it, and later regret getting rid of it.

I don't think any "storyline critical" objects can be sold or dropped, however minor quest objects can be. I think it kind of ruins something when every single quest object is clearly labeled as "special". You don't have that luxury in real life to know exactly if every object you come across may be needed for another purpose down the road. I like finding something unique and wondering "should I hang on to this?". Clearly an inscribed wedding ring would make me think to keep it for a while, or until I desperately needed the gold from selling it.

Thoughts?

I rather like this.

If it encourages people to slow down and read the descriptions / flavor text of items and maybe hold on to the more interesting ones rather than selling anything even remotely shiny, all the better.

Plus in the case of the ring (assuming it is valued as a piece of jewelry), it gives the player a choice ~ give the ring back because "it's the right thing to do" (and for XP, of course) or sell it for the cold hard cash?

[PhilosophiX]

It's funny- people request more and more realism in RPGs, and what you just described sounds very real to me: you find an object, sell it, and later regret getting rid of it.

I don't think any "storyline critical" objects can be sold or dropped, however minor quest objects can be. I think it kind of ruins something when every single quest object is clearly labeled as "special". You don't have that luxury in real life to know exactly if every object you come across may be needed for another purpose down the road. I like finding something unique and wondering "should I hang on to this?". Clearly an inscribed wedding ring would make me think to keep it for a while, or until I desperately needed the gold from selling it.

Thoughts?

I agree with what you are saying. I don't intend any offense to anyone, these are just general observations, but I'm up in arms when I see a lot of posts regarding games (not just this one) but in all manner of genres... in lots of other forums, and judging by the posts there are a significant number of gamers who want an 'easier' way of doing anything and everything. Sometimes I get the feeling that they won't stop requesting 'easy' options until they get to the stage of watching the computer play the game for them. Where's the fun in that?

Personally I think that after all the trouble designers go to, to make a massive, open, non-linear environment, with no rails nor limitations - making quest items unsellable just slaps a big limitation and undoes a lot of what openendedness we have. Like you said, not knowing if something will be useful later adds to the excitement of the discovery and leads one to play the game with more consideration.

That said. Please, please, please, I implore you to consider putting a bank box facility into the game (and I'm not talking about you-know-where) although once you added the ability to go there more than once, that became one of my stash places.

However it would be great to be able to walk into a small building within a city (i.e. Bank) and store things you didn't want to carry in your bank box. I stashed my stuff (things with high value that I wanted to sell once I had raised my Merchant skill) in the chest where I got the 2nd letter, and would return there every now and then to stash more, but I was disappointed that it wasn't built into the game in a way that made some kind of Role Playing sense. The old codger that lived in that house wasn't exactly fond of visitors, so it wasn't exactly realistic that I should return there often.

In fact I'm always disappointed in general when Role Playing games don't offer you the ability to purchase or rent a room / house. That isn't exactly hard to program (talk to someone pay them for a key to a specific house) and adds significantly to the realism of the game. It also saves having to carry about each and every little thing that one finds.

I know we can dump our stuff in any old chest and come back for it later, but as a role player it kinds of drags me out of the game, reminds me it is a game, and I don't want that.

[Effidian]

This is the reason I'm a pack rat. Every single item in the game that I wasn't sure about or looked unique I'd stick in chests and barrels so that if I need it later on, I can go get it. Since the game only requires 4 items to complete, I'm okay with everything being sellable/destroyable (except those 4, although an argument could be made for those as well). If you can't complete something the first time through, it'll be something to do in your second run through.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the "make games more realistic" quibble. Reality is boring, I play games to escape from reality. If someone were to make a trully realistic game, very very few people would like playing it. Really what people want when they ask for more realism are little things they enjoy doing in games and then they add the "realistic" tag to give it more credence. Seriously, just make a game where a game day is 24 hours of realtime, and you need to sleep 6-8 of them so your next day isn't affected. I doubt people want that type of realism...

Anyway, here are several things I don't like about "realistic" games.

* I don't like inventory restrictions. Having to treck back to town to sell stuff isn't fun. I loved Gothic games because I could carry every single item that I found in the entire game with me. Not realistic, but so what. If you want realistic, you aren't going to be carrying a second set of armor in your pack, or the 15 swords you just looted, no matter what your strength is. I probably wouldn't mind a game that was actually built around a realistic inventory, meaning you aren't expected to carry back loot to sell, you just scavange what you can to use and leave everything else to the elements. But the game would have to be designed from the ground up with that concept in mind.

* I don't like having to manage food/drink. If I'm going to do that, you might as well put in sleep requirements and having to go to the bathroom. I prefer not dealing with it.

* I don't like having to buy ammo. In most games ranged fighters don't have much of a combat advantage, but when they have to buy ammo, it is a big disadvantage both in terms of cost and precious inventory space. I prefer the unrealistic approach of having the bow generate ammo or a thrown weapon be magically returned to you every time your going to throw it. If you can retrieve your ammo (which btw, would be more realistic), it isn't such a big deal, but without ammo retrieval I've gotten to the point I don't even play a ranged classes anymore (even though it is my favorite to play).

Those are some of the "realistic" things I don't enjoy. There are others, but I've ranted enough...

[vid]

It's funny- people request more and more realism in RPGs, and what you just described sounds very real to me: you find an object, sell it, and later regret getting rid of it.

I don't think any "storyline critical" objects can be sold or dropped, however minor quest objects can be. I think it kind of ruins something when every single quest object is clearly labeled as "special". You don't have that luxury in real life to know exactly if every object you come across may be needed for another purpose down the road. I like finding something unique and wondering "should I hang on to this?". Clearly an inscribed wedding ring would make me think to keep it for a while, or until I desperately needed the gold from selling it.

Thoughts?

Ok, but it should be possible for players to trace those objects.
For example, if i sell this ring to a merchant, and come back 2 days later, the ring is gone. but it should be gone, because he sold it to someone else. so generally every npc in this town could have it, and i should have the possibility to trade with every npc, to theoretically get it back.

would that be hard to implement?

[GSV3MiaC]

It's funny- people request more and more realism in RPGs, and what you just described sounds very real to me: you find an object, sell it, and later regret getting rid of it.

I agree. What IS the point of a game where it is impossible to lose?

[realmzmaster]

I have no problem with being unable to complete the quest because it is not a game breaker! It was my decision to sell the ring ( I needed the money!) But, I notice when I sell items to shops they seem to remain for a period of time. My question is does the inscribed ring just become a typical gold ring in the shop's inventory or will it always keep the inscription so it can be identified? Because if its' description remains gold ring with inscription then it can be traced which becomes an additional minor quest( no experience awarded) to the original minor quest.

If I drop an item I am given a warning this item will be lost forever, unless it is put in a barrel or chest which is fair. But there is no option if you sell an item that is unique ( I am not talking about run of the mill items) of tracing it and trying to buy it from the new owner or stealing it or removing it from the owner by other means. I played Titan Quest if you sold an item to the merchant you had a certain time to get back and the item would still be there unless it happen to be in Rhodes. The merchant in Rhodes would cheerfully buy your items and if you concluded the sale would state "I see a ship coming in!" That was your warning that the inventory just turned over and the items you sold were gone! Which is also fair enough.

Other games I have played had a pawn shop which keep your item a certain amount of days. If you did not come back in prescribed time the item was put on sale. Now that I have the option to use the vault. I store important items and unknowns (until I have enough lore or money to identify them). As far as endless ammo I disagree, because that means the enemy has endless ammo. I like when the enemy runs out of ammo before I do. If I run out before the enemy I either run, charge with sword in hand or die.

I played Alternate Reality by Datasoft. (yes, there is an old chestnut for you) Your character could be posioned, diseased, fatigued or straving. It added to the tension and fun. If you were straving or fatigued your health was affected and you started losing hit points. You did not have to micro-managed excessively. Just remenber to buy food packets and water flasks. It also gave you the option to beg for money or like Eschalon does ask for work. I really like Eschalon. I am just comparing it to many of the old school crpg's I have played. Each of which brought something different to the table.

[BasiliskWrangler]

Ah yes, Alternate Reality! I actually have Gary Gilbertson's original soundtrack to that game in my collection, recorded right from the Atari 800 chip emulator. Very cool game- very "old-school" to say the least.

You mention pawn shops...you know, Eschalon really does function pretty much like that: you can sell things for cash, and you have 4 days to come back and retrieve what you sold (at an inflated cost) . The real difference is that not everything lasts in inventory 4 whole days, but rather the entire inventory is refreshed 4 days from the first time it was generated.

[chamr]

I don't think any "storyline critical" objects can be sold or dropped, however minor quest objects can be. I think it kind of ruins something when every single quest object is clearly labeled as "special". You don't have that luxury in real life to know exactly if every object you come across may be needed for another purpose down the road. I like finding something unique and wondering "should I hang on to this?". Clearly an inscribed wedding ring would make me think to keep it for a while, or until I desperately needed the gold from selling it.

Thoughts?

I agree with this approach. Making side quest items unsellable or clearly marked "special - don't sell, knucklehead!!!" is too much hand-holding and clearly not old school. In other words, completely contrary to the spirit and vision of this game.

[realmzmaster]

Yes! I have Alternate Reality:The City and Dungeon for the Atari 800. I also have the City for the Atari ST. Unfortunately the series was never finished and the remake never occurred. Pity, it would have been interesting. Which is why I want to see Eschalon succeed. I want to be able to play Book II and III. Who knows you might make enough sequels to catch DragonQuest or Final Fanasty

[PaSquall]

It's funny- people request more and more realism in RPGs, and what you just described sounds very real to me: you find an object, sell it, and later regret getting rid of it.

I don't think any "storyline critical" objects can be sold or dropped, however minor quest objects can be. I think it kind of ruins something when every single quest object is clearly labeled as "special". You don't have that luxury in real life to know exactly if every object you come across may be needed for another purpose down the road. I like finding something unique and wondering "should I hang on to this?". Clearly an inscribed wedding ring would make me think to keep it for a while, or until I desperately needed the gold from selling it.

Thoughts?

Agreed.
However give us enough storage space then...