Piracy prevention (or at least assessment)

[GSV3MiaC]

Since the other thread got locked before I could add my 10 cents worth, I'd just like to add that I think it would be worth at least recording the email addresses of those that bought the game (to compare & contrast with those posting here). You can also then email them with details of the expansion, patches, whatever, if you choose.

btw, if the game is out there on pirate sites, then at least ONE of the paying customers is apparently a crook. Sad .. folks should only give away the fruits of their own labors, not other peoples.

But Yeah, I agree with BW that copy protection is a really stupid idea, and I don't buy any DRM protected 'non-CDs'.

[dryden]

Piracy of computer software is part of the internet now. As was stated in the other thread, probably every game published has been cracked and made available. The only software protection that I have seen truly work are ones that "call home" every day for updates, like an anti-virus product. I pay for games that I play, but I can afford it. I have gotten "burned" by terrible games in the past (no returns!), so the demo of Eschalon was a exceptionally good idea, once I had played it for an hour, I knew the game was one that I would like playing.

Why are there software pirates? IMO, they are probably mostly kids and teens who cannot easily afford a game, or peoples from places where even $30 is a LOT of money. Having to pay with a CC makes it difficult for many, but games are pirated even when readily available in stores. Then there are the "rebels" who are not going to pay for anything they do not have to. Hopefully these guys are a marginal part of the rpg scene.

So, what do you do when you are the publisher, who has worked years and may not make the second edition if too many people pirate the game? I have no answer to this, except to get the word out on the game widely enough, so that sales will be large enough so that the pirated editions will not matter.

BW is doing this right I believe. An expanded demo, versions for the Mac and Linux and spending quality time here on the forums and in making updates available quickly to fix things. If he changes modes to trying to track down pirates, to GET them like the RIAA does, I think it will be a negative all around. So let them participate in the forums, their input may get others interested in the game and that is a positive.

BW and the others that made Eschalon should rightly be proud of the game. They should be happy and proud of their accomplishment and continue to push for sales and publicity in every way possible. To become bitter and unhappy because of piracy would not change anything, so just forget it and continue to do good work.

[AstralWanderer]

Why are there software pirates? IMO, they are probably mostly kids and teens who cannot easily afford a game, or peoples from places where even $30 is a LOT of money. Having to pay with a CC makes it difficult for many, but games are pirated even when readily available in stores. Then there are the "rebels" who are not going to pay for anything they do not have to.

This is something I would agree with - most pirates either cannot or will not purchase games so even if there was a "100% effective" system, it would not necessarily improve sales. The idea that every unauthorised copy represents a lost sale and actual financial loss is one that should be left to the RIAA/MPAA fantasists.

BW is doing this right I believe. An expanded demo, versions for the Mac and Linux and spending quality time here on the forums and in making updates available quickly to fix things. If he changes modes to trying to track down pirates, to GET them like the RIAA does, I think it will be a negative all around. So let them participate in the forums, their input may get others interested in the game and that is a positive.

The key thing is placing paying customers first, by not inconveniencing them with systems like CD-checks (I now check sites like GameCopyWorld first to see if there is a no-CD crack before purchasing any games, since having to continually swap them is onerous and risks damaging the media) or online activation (if your Internet connection goes down or the software publisher goes out of business, bye bye game). Assuming that Basilisk are doing neither (can't tell since I can't purchase...) then good for them - such publishers (Shrapnel Games are another example) deserve support.

Recording email addresses of purchasers wouldn't be a reliable system of verifying users - there are too many sources of free emails (plus aliasing services like SpamGourmet) for it to be effective.

[GSV3MiaC]

Recording email addresses of purchasers wouldn't be a reliable system of verifying users - there are too many sources of free emails (plus aliasing services like SpamGourmet) for it to be effective.

I don't believe that affects anything. If you got $30 from email address 'fred@xyz.net' it doesn't matter whether it is a free address or whatever, it's a paid-for customer email address, which is all you care about when it is time to email out the goodies.

[Rollor]

I'd just like to add that I think it would be worth at least recording the email addresses of those that bought the game (to compare & contrast with those posting here). You can also then email them with details of the expansion, patches, whatever, if you choose.

I would never use the same adress for buying stuff and registering on forums. Actually most of the time I use those 10 minute mails :/

[chamr]

Why are there software pirates? IMO, they are probably mostly kids and teens who cannot easily afford a game, or peoples from places where even $30 is a LOT of money. Having to pay with a CC makes it difficult for many, but games are pirated even when readily available in stores. Then there are the "rebels" who are not going to pay for anything they do not have to.

This is something I would agree with - most pirates either cannot or ...

Malarkey. Most pirates are weenies and petty thieves. Also, many games come with ample demos these days, so the old "try before I buy" argument is another load of crap.

However, I agree with the rest of the posts stating, basically, that anti-piracy is mostly a waste of time. The weenie-punk-thieves will always find a way around it, unfortunately. Where they get their sense of entitlement and/or lack of integrity is the real problem that needs solving...

[macdude22]

The try before I buy argument I can agree with, well less now than before. Used to be a lot less demos out now, but now even the consoles have ample demos. The I can't afford it argument don't cut the mustard with me. I want a new prius, I can't afford one, I better trot over to the dealer and get me one anyway. Hey I can't afford it!

But copy protection schemes usually amount to annoying the paying customers getting hassled or worse, unable to play the game they paid for. I applaud the lack of DRM BS, just like I applaud companies like Stardock for the same reason (with my hands and my wallet).

Personally I don't mind a simple Serial setup, yea it's easy to get leaked out but it's a mild deterrent without being annoyingly so. Plus you can say this is my serial baby, only one out there....wait you got one too,

Now if an item is no longer available, ala the dev/publisher won't sell it to you anymore I'm a little more forgiving even understanding. Say something like Neverwinter nights Mac. Man I want this but it's damn near impossible to find for under 70 bucks for both the game and the expansions. The developer/publisher won't sell me a copy and the used copies are both outrageously expensive and the developer/publisher doesn't get a cut of that anyway. What's someone to do in these cases. I'm not going to pay 200+ for 40 dollars worth of games especially if the creators aren't getting a cut.

[Necromis]

Why are there software pirates? IMO, they are probably mostly kids and teens who cannot easily afford a game, or peoples from places where even $30 is a LOT of money. Having to pay with a CC makes it difficult for many, but games are pirated even when readily available in stores. Then there are the "rebels" who are not going to pay for anything they do not have to.

This is something I would agree with - most pirates either cannot or ...

Malarkey. Most pirates are weenies and petty thieves. Also, many games come with ample demos these days, so the old "try before I buy" argument is another load of crap.

However, I agree with the rest of the posts stating, basically, that anti-piracy is mostly a waste of time. The weenie-punk-thieves will always find a way around it, unfortunately. Where they get their sense of entitlement and/or lack of integrity is the real problem that needs solving...

I guess you have not seen the size of most Demos. BW did bump up the size of Book I to a more reasonable level. However, in most cases the demo does not give you enough of a feel for the game to truly decide if you will want to buy it. I personally do try before I buy. I do also make plenty of money so it is not an I cannot aford it attitude. However, I am not going to just waste money on something I won't enjoy. After all you do not have the same protection buying software as you do physical merchandise. I cannot return the game if I don't like it. There is a fine line between a demo giving too much and too little and it is hard to judge where this line is. That is where people like me come into play. We do download the *free* version, then confirm it is a value to us before purchasing. In my 40 years I have purchased 100s of games, and 90% of them I tried free before patroning.

So please know what you are talking about before you say something is a load of crap.

[banner]

An approach to piracy protection that I like is for the game to run only on the buyer's computer(s).

During game installation, the game is configured to run only on the machine it is being installed on. [This process requires internet access; however, computers without internet access could install the game by having authorization requests/responses communicated via email.]

Subsequently, when the game starts, it performs a check (could be based on MAC address, hard drive serial numbers/specs, and/or various other factors) to confirm legitimacy.

One disadvantage of this approach is that if hardware changes, the game may need to be reauthorized. However, this is usually a very minor inconvenience.

If excessive installations of the same purchase are performed, the developer can ask the user to explain why (a user should only own a limited number of computers, and presumably upgrades hardware a limited number of times).

This is far more convenient for the user than requiring a CD to be inserted during gameplay.

One disadvantage is that if a user wants to install the game years after purchase, if no "authorization sites" still exist, installation may not be possible. Of course, a kindly developer (who no longer wishes to maintain an authorization web site) could release a game version (or authorization generator) allowing unlimited and unrestricted game installation.

[just]

Malarkey. Most pirates are weenies and petty thieves. Also, many games come with ample demos these days, so the old "try before I buy" argument is another load of crap.

However, I agree with the rest of the posts stating, basically, that anti-piracy is mostly a waste of time. The weenie-punk-thieves will always find a way around it, unfortunately. Where they get their sense of entitlement and/or lack of integrity is the real problem that needs solving...

Pirates like the people asking for an illegal copy of a game here?

[Necromis]

and again this is easily cracked, also. I play a game called Demise and this game has online verification of this type on it. Someone already has cracked that and put it out for free sharing.

[macdude22]

An approach to piracy protection that I like is for the game to run only on the buyer's computer(s).

During game installation, the game is configured to run only on the machine it is being installed on. [This process requires internet access; however, computers without internet access could install the game by having authorization requests/responses communicated via email.]

Subsequently, when the game starts, it performs a check (could be based on MAC address, hard drive serial numbers/specs, and/or various other factors) to confirm legitimacy.

One disadvantage of this approach is that if hardware changes, the game may need to be reauthorized. However, this is usually a very minor inconvenience.

If excessive installations of the same purchase are performed, the developer can ask the user to explain why (a user should only own a limited number of computers, and presumably upgrades hardware a limited number of times).

This is far more convenient for the user than requiring a CD to be inserted during gameplay.

One disadvantage is that if a user wants to install the game years after purchase, if no "authorization sites" still exist, installation may not be possible. Of course, a kindly developer (who no longer wishes to maintain an authorization web site) could release a game version (or authorization generator) allowing unlimited and unrestricted game installation.

Way too much of a hassle, thats the exact problem DRM creates. I go through computers like candy, I steer clear of any garbage like this. I paid for it don't go telling me I've activated it too many times or some BS. At this point I'd go find a hacked version because it would likely be easier, even if I've paid for it. I have several no-cd cracks for several games I own because well I don't like swapping cds til the cows come home.

There is zero reason I should have to be connected to the internet (however likely it is that I am) to play a game or use software that I've already paid for. Thats a good way to annoy me as a customer and assure no repeat sales. I don't like garbage phoning home willy nilly.

Statistically I'm almost positive it's been shown that the pirates will pirate regardless of DRM/protection but consumer satisfaction goes up when they have to dick around less.

[VPeric]

The idea that every unauthorised copy represents a lost sale and actual financial loss is one that should be left to the RIAA/MPAA fantasists.

A very good point - in fact, in this case, I'd say that no unauthorised copies actually represent lost sales.

Fact is, most DRM methods do annoy the paying customer, or at the very least, add extra hassle for the developer. Furthermore, even the best protected games get cracked (see Bioshock, for example, which had tons of legitimate users complaining due to intrusive copy-protection, yet the game still got cracked).

So, I think BasiliskWrangler is going the right way here - he is counting on people's decency to earn his money, and RPGs, well - they usually are played by decent people.

[getter77]

If a game is well wrought, reasonably priced, known to as many places as possible, well supported in terms of fixes and community, and comes from a developer thas has NOT engendered some form of vitriolic hatred from the gaming community target audience due to a past decision...odds are very good sales will happen at a high enough frequency to offset thee inevitable copying and piracy from groups and individuals that simply do not discriminate---they just do as they do regardless.

Any time wasted on DRM and the like is time that could've been spent interacting with the fans and/or customers to establish a cordial, upbeat sense of trust and/or further polishing of the game or efforts to bolster increased sales such as interviews, ads, and so on. In cases like these, customers stand a better chance of staying customers, as do fans turning into customers, if they feel some degree of personal connection, or common courtesy, towards the provider of such compared to a faceless, monolithic corporation whose contact may be limited to some manner of robot or outsourced tech help.

[AstralWanderer]

I applaud the lack of DRM BS, just like I applaud companies like Stardock for the same reason (with my hands and my wallet).

FYI, Stardock have actually added DRM to their products. Until recently all you had to do was enter a serial number, now you have online authentication at install (and whenever the software thinks your system has changed).

I ran into this with GalCiv II - after downloading a patch, it took me 3 weeks (and four tries from Stardock support) before I received a keyfile that allowed me to play a game I paid for. Luckily, there is a crack for GalCiv II removing this check so I don't have to face the same hassle in future. Luckily too, I found out that this was the case with Object Desktop, saving me the hassle (and Stardock the finanical benefit) of renewing my subscription.

During game installation, the game is configured to run only on the machine it is being installed on. [This process requires internet access; however, computers without internet access could install the game by having authorization requests/responses communicated via email.]

This is how Stardock now works. The problem is twofold: One is if your system "changes" enough to seem to be a new install - how far can you go with hardware upgrades before having to worry about re-activation? This is the same problem that Microsoft's Windows Activation presents, but at least MS have provided information about how it does its calculations.

The second problem, and one inherent to all online activation schemes, is that it ties the software to the company - if the publisher goes bust, your continued use of the software is unlikley at best. That may not seem to be a great loss with a game, but a good game should still be fun 5, 10 or even 20 years in the future. Online activation (unless cracked) removes that option.

A "once only, ever" activation would avoid such problems, which is basically what serial numbers offer. A low level of protection with minor inconvenience to the buyer and no built-in time-bomb.