General Game EDITOR Questions For BW

[IJBall]

In thinking ahead to the eventual release of a 'game editor' for Book III Eschalon, I came up with a few questions that only BW is likely to be able to answer...:

1. Will there be an easy way to "convert" Book II maps to "Book III format" maps using the Editor? (I realize that this, of course, will not be possible to do with Book I maps, which will have to be recreated from scratch...) This will save a lot of time for modders if we can get easy access to the Book II maps using the Editor to do a simple 'covert' of the formats...
2. Will the Editor allow us to be able to "swap out spells" from the game? For example, let's say I really like the 'Fire Dart' spell from Books I & II, and want to either replace Spark with Fire Dart in my Mod (or, perhaps, I want players to have access to both Spark and Fire Dart spells in my Mod!) - will there be a way to do this?
3. Will there be a way to create 'Food Items' using the Editor? For example, if I want to create a food item called 'Edible Dungeon Fungus' - will there be a way using the Editor to do this?

Thanks in advance!

[SpottedShroom]

For (1), the conversion is a bit complicated - in addition to the changed file format, the two games have different graphics in the same "slots". For the map converter I was thinking about writing, I would have to manually merge some graphics files and hope there's enough space for all of the art used in both games, then write a conversion table between Book II numbers and the new consolidated Book III numbers. So I would guess probably the answer will be "no," but it's something I'll be working on. I'm also interested in this for some more ambitious projects I'm considering, like a re-implementation of Ultima 6 in the Eschalon engine.

And on a related note, BW, if you're reading this: any chance of increasing the size of the item sheets beyond 10x10 for mod friendliness?

3 is almost certainly yes. It would be fairly straightforward to do this today - just add the item's information to the data/general_items.csv file in the datapak.

[Glossome]

I'm also interested in this for some more ambitious projects I'm considering, like a re-implementation of Ultima 6 in the Eschalon engine.

spam. Spam. SPAM. Humbug!

That reminds me ... I keep forgetting to try out that Ultima 6 Project thing that was done with the Dungeon Siege engine.

[IJBall]

I'm also interested in this for some more ambitious projects I'm considering, like a re-implementation of Ultima 6 in the Eschalon engine.

spam. Spam. SPAM. Humbug!

He's not the only one - I've toyed with the idea of try to re-implement Ultima III using the Eschalon engine...

[BasiliskWrangler]

#1 - There would be no way to make a perfect 1:1 converter for Book 2 to Book 3. However, you could have the bulk of the work done for you. The program just needs a "look-up table" to compare tile numbers from Book 2 and convert them to the appropriate or alternate tile from the Book 3 sheets. For special Book 2 tiles that didn't make it into Book 3, you could import them as a unique graphic element.

Scripting hasn't changed much, so that would import almost flawlessly.

But then - items and entities -these would be a hard thing to convert. There is a substantial amount of data that probably would need to be hand converted using a spreadsheet.

#2 - Right now, spells are pretty much hard-coded. Some aspects of the spells, like power and duration and descriptions, are kept in a external file. But the spells themselves, how they are parsed and what actually happens when you cast them - that's all hard-coded inside the game.

#3 - Yes, this would be easy to do except for the fact that if you make an item like that on your system, everyone else would need an updated version of your general_items data sheet, or they will not see your newest item.

The underlying issue is how much of the game is hard-coded. It was never meant to be modded. I am willing to make all the changes necessary to make Book III as open and moddable as it can be...but...this will largely depend on its continued sales and how many of you are actually using the tools. I can't spend 4-6 months updating Book 3 if sales are flat-lined and only a dozen of you hardcore fans are making maps for each other.

The schedule right now is to get the Mac version on Mac App Store (Apple is requiring me to update some of the code, so that will be version 1.01). Version 1.02 will be the first general release update and it will have some code changes needed to help with loading new maps. We'll see where that goes before I promise additional updates.

[SpottedShroom]

For special Book 2 tiles that didn't make it into Book 3, you could import them as a unique graphic element.

Oh, that's a good point and will make things easier. But that's only for world graphics, right - there's no way to use graphics outside the sheet files for items?

[BasiliskWrangler]

For special Book 2 tiles that didn't make it into Book 3, you could import them as a unique graphic element.

Oh, that's a good point and will make things easier. But that's only for world graphics, right - there's no way to use graphics outside the sheet files for items?

No, not right now, but I can think of a few ways it could be done with a few extra lines of code. In the long run I could easily add code that would look to "external tile sheets" for any tile number that extends outside of the "normal" range. So for your mod, you would just include your own tile sheet with your other map and entity files.

[IJBall]

{snip}
The underlying issue is how much of the game is hard-coded. It was never meant to be modded. I am willing to make all the changes necessary to make Book III as open and moddable as it can be...but...this will largely depend on its continued sales and how many of you are actually using the tools. I can't spend 4-6 months updating Book 3 if sales are flat-lined and only a dozen of you hardcore fans are making maps for each other.

Let me just say that most of us, I think, have realistic expectations about the Editor. I know I do. All I'm looking for is something that is easier to deal with than xolotl's/SS's editor (esp. on the Mac) - something that allows us to make maps, and maybe a little more. The most important thing, I'd say, from a 'Modding' standpoint, is the ability to place and edit NPCs (which I gather xolotl's/SS's editor cannot currently do). If the Basilisk Games editor can at least do that - allow us to set up and place on a map new NPCs - I suspect that will be good enough for most of us to play around with some Modding...

[SpottedShroom]

Let me just say that most of us, I think, have realistic expectations about the Editor. I know I do. All I'm looking for is something that is easier to deal with than xolotl's/SS's editor (esp. on the Mac) - something that allows us to make maps, and maybe a little more. The most important thing, I'd say, from a 'Modding' standpoint, is the ability to place and edit NPCs (which I gather xolotl's/SS's editor cannot currently do). If the Basilisk Games editor can at least do that - allow us to set up and place on a map new NPCs - I suspect that will be good enough for most of us to play around with some Modding... :)

I think the main thing that's missing right now to be able to create full mods is the ability for the game to load resources from outside the datapak - or maybe it can and we don't know how to do it yet. Once we have that, it'll be easy to create new dialog files - see http://www.basiliskgames.com/forums/vie ... =26&t=9036 for what they look like - and add entries to the entities.csv spreadsheet.

[IJBall]

Follow-up question, that SS is as likely to be able to answer as BW...

Currently, you can set the following options "by map":

1. Weather effects.
2. Camping encounters (yes/no)
3. Portal spell use (yes/no)

My question is - is there an option to set Foraging (on/off) by map?!

If not, are there any options that can be set at the map level?

TIA!...

[BasiliskWrangler]

Follow-up question, that SS is as likely to be able to answer as BW...

Currently, you can set the following options "by map":

1. Weather effects.
2. Camping encounters (yes/no)
3. Portal spell use (yes/no)

My question is - is there an option to set Foraging (on/off) by map?!

If not, are there any options that can be set at the map level?

TIA!...

No, but foraging only occurs on natural (grass/swamp/sand) tiles. You can't forage on stone or rock tiles, so many dungeons (by default) are free from foraging. I think the saved game format has a few available variables....which means I could add a map flag like that, if needed, without breaking the map file format.