Fallout 3

[Gallifrey]

This is continued from here

Well, I think you should read here: http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37018

From wht's reported in this interview it seems we'll never play a good FallOut sequel.....

What do you think?

P.S:
I think I'm going a bit off topic, so Basilisk, if you think tha same, please move me to another thread.

Attributing any balanced or impartial qualities to the NMA take on FO3 is a bit short-sighted I think.

As for what Bethesda have shown so far, I think FO3 looks promising. They've clearly got the setting visuals down (the alcohol bottle on the bus on the teaser, for example, looks exactly like the bottle in the first two Fallouts), and the colour scheme and textures are there. I think they've made a great concession to the turn-based nature of the first two games buy putting in that VATS targeting system. No, it's not turn-based but it's pretty surprising to see anything derived from FO's TB nature included in the new game.
The plot sounds a bit weak, but then, the Fallout plots never were great to begin with, so it's the adventure that matters, the exploration and character building/role play opportunities.
They have a salvage and survival element in, which is wonderful to see.
The only thing that jumps up and says "Hey, stupid idea here!" is that handheld nuclear catapult. Whoever came up with that should be soundly flogged. The GI preview talks about watching your radiation levels, and then there's a handheld nuclear bomb? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

When it comes down to it, we really know very little about the game, so making black and white judgement calls on it right now is, in my opinion, daft. I think it looks good so far, but who knows what could happen. I think Bethesda are on a mostly promising track though, considering this is a AAA incarnation of a Fallout game.
The gameplay will not be the same as FO and FO2, but the setting looks solid, and FO was always about setting and adventure, not a rules and mechanics set.

[txa1265]

I honestly think we are looking at 'Oblivion with guns for adults'. Which is OK in and of itself, but not so great in the overall context of the Fallout series.

[Gallifrey]

I think it's far too early to really be able to say it's "Oblivion with guns". I mean, that designation has been around for ages now, it's more a meme than any real critical assessment.
Sure it's still possible FO3 can go that way, they've suggested the dialogue system is like Oblivion's which is bad, really bad, and not at all in keeping with the Fallout "experience", in which dialogue was full of personality and style.
Now, if they go with the absurd join-all-factions-possible route, no matter what your character is like, then yeah, the Oblivion-with-guns thing will be apt. Fallout put a lot of weight on your choices, and those choices cut off other options while opening new ones. I really feel the do-it-all-at-once approach of Oblivion was a Bad Move, and would be extremely out of place in a Fallout game.

For now I'm somewhat cautiously optimistic. But it's gonna be well past 2008 before I'll be able to even run the blasted game. The system requirements on that are going to be obscene.

[txa1265]

I know, and I used the 'oblivion with guns' code knowing that it *is* basically a meme. But there are concerns:
- Oblivion-style dialog as you mentioned. Will this mean the same style of quests where your options are 'accept' and ... um, accept?
- Also, there were places in Oblivion where choices seemed to be obvious, yet they were taken from you in a dialog that popped up.
- The game features portable nuke launchers as weapons. Apparently nuke explosions and fallout are everyday occurrences.
- The combat system boils down to real-time with pause.

But I too am willing to sit back and wait ... I have no idea how things will turn out, and am hopeful that whatever surfaces will be fun to play and solidly built.

[Gallifrey]

The dialogue is a big worry, and I hope to god they don't follow the Oblivion pattern of accept-only responses. It's Fallout, you need to be able to threaten, con, lie and outright insult in dialogue, not to mention flat out refuse to help.
The nuke-launcher thing is absurd and I hope it's only a one-shot one-use one-quest item because wow, who let the 12 year old design that one?

The combat system is real-time with pause, yes, which is a heck of a lot better than *only* real-time. The VATS system of action points will still reward your high Agility tactical hit-and-run fighters, and still use the character stats not soley the player's own skill with the mouse/controller.

[BasiliskWrangler]

There is a possibility that Fallout 3 will actually be a good game on its own- meaning not as a legitimate sequel in the Fallout franchise, but just as an actiony post-apocalyptic romp.

There's no denying that Oblivion sucked on many levels as an RPG, yet it was still sorta fun in its own way.

[Gothmog]

I fully trust Bethesda on this one!

[Fleisch]

It's hard to figure out much of anything from what we know thus far, but to me, the combat doesn't even sound like real time with pause, not in any Baldur's Gate sort of sense -- it sounds like real time with a pause only if you want to make a targeted shot, and even then you don't seem to be able to pause whenever you want to. If I understand correctly, the AP system is being implemented through controls on your ability to pause. There have been references to Max Payne and various post-apocalyptic console and shooter games with which I am likewise unfamiliar, but the comparisons appear valid based on the description.

Anyway, I totally agree with our esteemed host's comment in the Game Banshee interview about "not looking for a medieval version of Halo", or any version of Halo, for that matter. The teaser was good (though I didn't care for the colour palette), but the magazine description didn't sound like Fallout, although I can well understand that it may be as much of Fallout as modern large-scale developers have come to believe they can safely allow in their assessment of the current market. While this may be a good game for some, it will not be a game I either want to or can play. I haven't been able to play a Bethesda game since Daggerfall.

[Gothmog]

The problem with Bethesda-Games: They always heading for the "Big-One". But they always fail. The promises are great but the final Game is always a sort of a disapointment..... (i played them all....i have to admit...even oblivion for a while...)

[Gallifrey]

I never played Arena or Daggerfall, but I tried many times to get into Morrowind and just couldn't do it. Not with mods, not with expansions, it was just too boring and aimless with no real purpose to the player character.
And my computer can't run Oblivion, so I never tried that one.

[Fleisch]

The problem with Bethesda-Games: They always heading for the "Big-One". But they always fail. The promises are great but the final Game is always a sort of a disapointment..... (i played them all....i have to admit...even oblivion for a while...)

Totally agree. When I say I haven't been able to play Bethesda games since Daggerfall, I don't mean I didn't try. I lasted a lot longer with Morrowind than I did with Oblivion. With Oblivion, I didn't really get past the starter dungeon. Most of the time, I couldn't simultaneously control the camera and my attacks well enough to even see what was attacking me, let alone hit it. It seems the more games progress, the less I like them. I'm sure the console kiddies consider combat in action RPGs to be wimpy, but it's well beyond my capabilities -- and outside the scope of my interests. And then there's the issue of 1st person 3D games giving me motion sickness. . .

[Gallifrey]

There's something about first person that I find boring. Can't put my finger on it, perhaps it's the lack of having a character to look at, or getting sick of just seeing a hand holding a weapon floating along the whole time, but with first-person games I find myself quickly running to walkthroughs to carry on. I think I find the view disorienting.
The third-person view in Morrowind was more useful, but hideously ugly.

[GSV3MiaC]

I've played (and finished) them all .. Ok, for Daggerfall I think that was a somewhat lame version of 'finished', given the bugginess. Morrowind was probably the best .. Oblivion seemed rather dumbed down (for XBox360?) compared to MW (and the lack of flying/levitation was annoying). Despite the numbers bandied about, MW actually felt like a larger game, and was a bigger step forward from the one before .. Oblivion felt like minor (de-)tuning.

The do all lack anything resembling a compelling story line, but then they are that sort of RPG. So much do they lack it that in MW I frequently forgot what I was doing (and the journal was no help). They should get Jeff Vogel or someone similar to do the story while the other 999 people mess with fancy graphics, engines, music, etc.

The games were also wide open to 'power gaming', where you always level up with max Stats gains. I think in Oblivion I stopped collecting money when I reached a million, with nothing to spend it on. Daedric armor really shouldn't be 'Oh look, more trash' at any point in a decently balanced game. 8>.

[txa1265]

There is a possibility that Fallout 3 will actually be a good game on its own- meaning not as a legitimate sequel in the Fallout franchise, but just as an actiony post-apocalyptic romp.

There's no denying that Oblivion sucked on many levels as an RPG, yet it was still sorta fun in its own way.

That is what I was saying initially - and what I said in my Oblivion review ... as soon as I stopped thinking of Oblivion as a RPG and just thought of it as an action game I enjoyed it much more. Perhaps Fallout 3 will be sort of 'STALKER with better RPG elements'.

[BasiliskWrangler]

The bits about Oblivion that I enjoyed had nothing to do with role-playing...
1) Climb as high as you can on a mountain and drop all your gear at once...hilarity ensues as your crap tumbles down the mountainside for a half mile. It's a good test of their physics engine because round objects do in fact roll significantly farther than flat or square objects.
2) After you kill someone (ahem, in self defense only) see what kind of macabre things you can do with their body. The most disturbing: try to stuff the body in the fireplace. It's actually a hard challenge because they tend to not fold so easily, and when you finally get the job done it looks very horrific as their twisted corpse roasts in the fire.
3) Just sit on a hillside and watch the sunset. Lame I know, but very pleasant and perhaps the best sunset of any game to date.